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riffraff

Apple won't let you use "find my device" on airpods unless you have an iPhone either, iirc.

Its shitty behavior, but sadly unsurprising.

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I'm able to locate airpods via icloud.com using a web browser.

How did you enroll the airpods in find my network?

They don't provide an android client for enrolling them in the find my network.

Can you use AirPods without an Apple device to begin with?

Yes they are standard Bluetooth devices and can pair normally. On Apple devices they get more features.

I’ve used AirPods with my Sony PS Vita (made before AirPods) and my Nintendo switch (once they added Bluetooth headset support recently)

How well do they work / support bluetooth standards compared to other brands bluetooth headphones? I'd like to get these for a family member who wants new wireless earbuds, but not if it's as sub-par experience vs buying another brand for Android users

They are sub-par if they aren't embracing the ecosystem. You can't use most of the features, and the lack of multipoint Bluetooth becomes painfully apparent. Also, you tend to get broader codec support with Android-targeted headphones/earbuds.

Consider Beats if you want better cross-platform support while maintaining the same audio characteristics.

TIL. I honestly assumed they were i* locked

“Find My” depends on a custom chip iPhones have.

That's just for the hyper-precise location that will lead you around your house to your couch cushions. A general map location doesn't require that chip (my phone has it but my AirPods are old and don't have the corresponding feature).

That's for the Secure Enclave to ensure that the private keys used to identify the device aren't leaked (which would allow a 3rd party to passively track someone).

So you can only locate your airpods if they're with your iphone? Best make sure you lose them together then :)

No. You can locate your airpods if they're near any iPhone, iPad, or Mac. All you need is a web browser.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/5/22711557/apple-lost-airpo...

I mean...AirPods don't have GPS or a way to upload their location, so yes. The location shown on the map is the last place one of your devices (or, in recent times, anyone's iOS device) last saw it. That's usually good enough to tell "I left them at home" vs "I left them in that café"

The "Find my" is tied to the Apple ID account. That's part of how the end to end security works ( https://support.apple.com/guide/security/find-my-security-se... /// https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/06/the-c... /// https://web.archive.org/web/20190609003010/https://www.wired... ) and yet allows the owner of the account to unlock the "where is it" pieces of information.

It is through the iPhone that the AirPods are bound to the Apple ID and thus able to properly encrypt the "here I am" packets.

From the Wired article:

> In a background phone call with WIRED following its keynote, Apple broke down that privacy element, explaining how its "encrypted and anonymous" system avoids leaking your location data willy nilly, even as your devices broadcast a Bluetooth signal explicitly designed to let you track your device. The solution to that paradox, it turns out, is a trick that requires you to own at least two Apple devices. Each one emits a constantly changing key that nearby Apple devices use to encrypt and upload your geolocation data, such that only the other Apple device you own possesses the key to decrypt those locations.

> ...

> When you first set up Find My on your Apple devices—and Apple confirmed you do need at least two devices for this feature to work—it generates an unguessable private key that's shared on all those devices via end-to-end encrypted communication, so that only those machines possess the key.

And from https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/find-my-wired/

> The stronger privacy comes via end-to-end encryption, but rather than simply having a key that can be stolen, “Find My” requires a second Apple device to hold the decryption key. Owners who only have a single Apple device in their possession will have to settle for the older and less secure methods of verification.

It is possible that AirPods don't support the older encryption method.

It's unfortunate that Apple can't figure out how to enable the algorithm they designed themselves on Android devices so the second device doesn't need to be an iPhone. I'm sure those smart engineers will figure out their own protocol choices some day if we just give them enough time.

The issue is likely one of "how do you ensure the security of the other device?"

With Apple devices and the Secure Enclave ( https://support.apple.com/guide/security/secure-enclave-sec5... ), even Apple doesn't have the back doors to open it up and retrieve the keys from an arbitrary device.

If you had a third party android device that made it, if those eyes were compromised you would have passive tracking of that individual. Consider that for a dissident in an authoritarian country.

It's not a "can Apple design a protocol that does that?" but rather "if the device was compromised what would be the implications?"

Apple is perfectly willing to forego privacy and security if an authoritarian country demands it, see China for the most well known example.

If a user trusts Google with their phone (and likely their location history and other such data) then I don't see why Apple's customers would care if Google would be able to track them. The American government already asks Google for all devices in the vicinity of a crime, it's not like someone's headphones won't be found another way.

Any hardware token storage can be compromised, pretending Apple's chips made in China are any different from Qualcom's chips made in China in that regard is useless.

I don't believe for a second that nation state spying is even remotely related to Apple deciding to cripple their products if you use them together with something they didn't make.

sure, but I own macs, which I can find via "find my", I see no reason why I need also an iPhone to enroll my ear plugs in it.

You can. https://support.apple.com/guide/airpods/pair-airpods-1st-2nd...

You need to have a Mac with the appropriate Secure Enclave hardware and running the latest OS.

> After you set up your AirPods with one Apple device (like your iPhone), your AirPods connect automatically to your other Apple devices where you’re signed in with the same Apple ID.

Note the use of "like" - not exclusively.

    Pair AirPods with Mac
    Before you begin, make sure your Mac has the latest version of macOS installed.
    Open the case with your AirPods inside, then hold it next to your Mac.
    Press and hold the setup button on the back of the AirPods case for about five seconds, or until the status light flashes white.
    On your Mac, choose Apple menu  > System Preferences, then click Bluetooth.
    In the list of devices, select your AirPods, then click Connect

Note that the pairing of the AirPods to the Mac is done at the system level - not something that a user can run because it reaches into that Secure Enclave. Thus, to do this, you need a Mac that is running the latest OS. It also might be restricted to certain hardware ( different feature specs with https://support.apple.com/guide/security/secure-enclave-sec5... )

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