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Comment by diimdeep | Hacker News Reader

Apple deserve more market share.

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAfTXYa36f4

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I would prefer a Linux machine with similar hardware features over a Mac.

Honestly, if they just said "alright, we'll let you install linux and make it easy and the hardware should work fine", I'd probably buy one right now.

Yeah, it's basically the tethering by the vendor that's making me run away from them.

If I could buy an Apple laptop and then immediately break all my ties with Apple, still being able to use the machine, then I would certainly buy one.

Apple doesn't seem able to decide whether they are offering a service or a product.

It was this way for Windows for 1.5 decades with Boot Camp. On Intel chips they provided strong support for running Windows natively. In the end it seems like few people used it.

You are in luck: https://asahilinux.org/

And GPU drivers are getting pretty good. The builders of this are pretty amazing.

Mac with Linux support would be the best tech product ever.

Anyone know the market size of folks who want linux support on Mac hardware?

I think it's less of Mac hardware specifically, and more of the quality of their hardware.

The best Linux users can do (for a laptop) is a Thinkpad (as they officially have support from Lenovo) or one of the more boutique brands (system76, starlabs, purism) and at best (my opinion, Thinkpads) they trade blows with Apple hardware.

As far as desktops go, building a computer for Linux is simple and easy and doesn't really have that many problems in my experience.

What is the advantage of Apple supported Linux over XNU?

Don't they already? Asahi Linux, etc. It just doesn't have the greatest support (drivers).

I think you'd like Apple to provider proper documentation or even their own Linux drivers. That'd cannibalize macOS so I don't see that happening.

That would probably have either a negligible effect on sales or have a small upside overall. People who would buy a Mac to use with Linux are people who are not using macOS already. I would love to use the Mac hardware but I ain't giving up on Linux. The question is whether there are enough of us for them to make it worth providing support to Linux. Unfortunately, probably not.

I can do almost anything on a Mac terminal that I can do in a Linux terminal. So to _me_ there is nothing that a dedicated Linux environment can give me that OSX can't.

How about a usable package manager, or a usable window manager? Brew is extremely slow and cannot do versioning (as in, installing a package will result in random other packages upgraded across major versions), and for window managers there are only two non-paid versions which are OK but still poorer than alternatives available on Linux.

Versioning is done through the package maintainers. If there is no versioning for the package it's not Apple's fault (you could argue it's brews fault for not requiring it).

If you think Brew should require versioning then open a request.

If you don't think there is enough free windows managers perhaps you should create one yourself or contribute to a non paid project to ensure your wants are addressed.

It appears your problems are with 3rd parties and not Apple.

Packages within Brew are versioned, but Brew is incapable of understanding that and assumes you always want latest on anything.

> It appears your problems are with 3rd parties and not Apple.

No, my problem is that Apple can't be bothered to include basic features in their software, thus requiring endless third parties to fill the gaps pro bono / for money in the hopes Apple doesn't one day Sherlock them.

You answered your own question. And GPU is still not fully working iirc.

Well, they kind of let you. They don't port linux, but the firmware is open to it. https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109676836655086299

Maybe when they stop crippling their already expensive hardware to gouge customers.

Where's my multiple display outputs, Apple? I paid way more than any competing device, every one of which allowed for more than one extra display. I'm not a video editor, I don't want to buy an M1 Max just to get triple monitor support back.

Apple laptops are not expensive if you take into account how long they last, especially compared to laptops built by Lenovo et al.

It's only the entry level M1 that is limited to 1 extra display, although even then you can use DisplayLink. The M1 Pro supports two and the M1 Max supports 4.

https://plugable.com/blogs/news/how-many-external-monitors-c...

I wouldn’t call the display limitation intentional crippling just yet. It seems like it’s a legacy of the history of the base M1 / M2 chips. Although if they don’t resolve it in the next couple of generations I’ll agree.

What machine are you referring to? I can hook 3 displays up to my MBP M1.

The problem is that the normal M1 only allows one external DisplayLink screen on macOS (Linux can get more screens out of the same hardware, I believe, as long as the I/O bandwidth doesn't get exceeded).

In the end, the problem is that the first M1 chips simply didn't have the I/O capacity to drive multiple screens normally like the Intel machines before them could. Higher end and more recent chips have added more I/O (two screens for M1 Pro, four to five for M1 Max, five on M1 Ultra)

DisplayLink, a proprietary protocol that sends video over USB, was never a problem. The quality and performance of DisplayLink is far below DisplayPort, though, because the video needs to go through software and an additional layer of compression to fit within the USB data speeds.

You can see the limitations per model on Apple's website: https://support.apple.com/en-asia/HT202351

If you need more than 1 external display you go with an M1 Pro or M1 Max. They support 2 and 4 screens respectively. Buying an entry level model and expecting it to come with higher end features is a user issue, not a product issue.

Higher end features that any other OS on the same hardware supports (this includes DP daisy chaining over non-Thundrbolt)?

No other OS on the hardware would support it as the M1 has physical limitations. You're in luck though, the M2 MBP's look to be releasing tomorrow.

Hm one display connection seems to be reserved for the HDMI port if there is one. Considering how much trouble I tend to have with HDMI ports, that means the M1 Pro only supports ... one external display.

Well...no it supports two. Mines litterally sitting on my desk right now plugged into 2 screens and has been for ~4 months. A you issue doesnt make it an issue with the product ;)

Sure but can i do 2 x usb-c to displayport? Every time I plug something via hdmi in my current mac it tells me its a tv. Fortunately being Intel i can use 2x usb-c instead.

> Apple deserve more market share.

If their OS wasn't a dumpster fire of mindbogglingly poor UX hidden inbetween good and shiny UI/UX (if anyone wants examples, not having the option to have different scroll directions between mouse and trackpad even if the UX implies you do, and useless undebuggable error messages such as "A USB device is consuming too much power and has been shut down, reinsert it to use it again" without any indication which device it's talking about, with all of them still working), and if their hardware wasn't utterly unmaintainable I would have shared your opinion, but hélas that isn't the case.

They're also the only ones maintaining and improving a desktop OS with native apps in your language of choice.

Microsoft’s focus is now Azure, with Windows 11 development only recommended in .NET

maybe once they allow me to actually own my hardware (let me install whatever software I want (linux))

It's not really Apples job to build a copy of Linux for their hardware. You want it, you build it. There's nothing stopping it running.

I'm sorry how is Apple not allowing you? You are free to run whatever YOU want on it. Just because something YOU want isn't created, well that isn't apple or anyone else's problem. You should build what you need instead of expecting someone else to do it for you just because you demand it.

You're using the term "own" in a non-standard way to make your point.

When you buy a Mac, part of the deal is that it runs macOS. However, you still own the Mac. You can loan it to others or sell it. You can sleep with it under your pillow.

If you don't like the deal, then don't buy it.

Apple does allow this. It’s just the issue of finding software to install.

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