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Comment by 2devnull | Hacker News Reader

It’s not even possible in windows 11. You can leave Microsoft behind, or accept it and move on. I think apple does this too. You have options, but they don’t include Microsoft or apple. I think chromeos, for now, lets you opt out. I could be wrong about that.

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> You can leave Microsoft behind,

Everyone currently afflicted can make the most of the US 3-day weekend, write this installer raw to a USB stick/drive, boot it, and overwrite Microsoft forever:

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/d...

Or, if it's a laptop that needs closed WiFi firmware blobs, use this USB stick image instead:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-in...

For some reason, “I think Apple does this too” always comes up in the discussions about Microsoft forcing online accounts within Windows.

MacOS doesn’t do this. Accounts are machine local. iCloud integration is an optional layer on top. Always has been. Nothing has changed.

Maybe give the OS a try before assuming Apple is following all the same antipatterns just because they also happen to fall into the category of “big tech”.

Apple is worse, they will randomly lock you out of devices you own even though you have the password and demand you verify on a different one. I had relatives who only had one apple device, what a nightmare fixing that was.

It's the big tech equivalent of stop and frisk.

This can’t happen if you don’t use iCloud. It’s a security feature supposedly for the user, but is badly implemented and annoying.

It is possible to set up MacOS without an iCloud account, but they do try hard to get you to sign in. You have to be diligent about looking for buttons like "Skip," "Not now," and "I'll do it later."

Fortunately those options still exist, but the pressure to sign in has been increasing over the last several versions of MacOS.

Em... No. Have you used a Mac? They only ask you once during setup, and have only one popup asking if you are sure.

Not true. Right now, I have MacOS Ventura nagging me to update my iCloud password, for the account "(null)". Notifications, System Settings badge, System Setting menu item drawing attention to "update available", all the enchilada.

"defaults delete com.apple.systempreferences AttentionPrefBundleIDs" doesn't work anymore.

Bug? Might be. But it happens to achieve the same kind of nagging that Microsoft is famous for; it passes the duck test.

Apple has more than one operating system.

iOS requires you to sign in to install apps.

Technically this doesn't lock you out the operating system, but it's close.

Can't update without signing in.

You do need an Apple account to use the App Store on macOS, unlike on Windows. With the App Store being the only place to download XCode, which in turn is required to use all the good stuff like Homebrew, the result for me and probably most people on HN is roughly the same.

Also, the macOS system preferences nag the user until iCloud is activated.

AppleID is everywhere.

FYI you cannot use ChromeOS without a Google account. You also cannot log out of chrome on ChromeOS.

Windows 11 pro doesnt require an ms account, you can create a local account.

This is no longer correct with the latest 22H2 December update. In order to circumvent this now requires getting to the command prompt (Shift+F10) during install and issuing a command to bypass the requirement.

The "I want to use enterprise login" (or whatever it is worded), doesn't work anymore?

It always created local login; if you really wanted to join AD, you had to use this account to log in and join manually. Actually, pretty annoying, desktop Linuces are capable of AD join straight from the OOBE.

Good to know, will be teaching this trick to my grandma, wish me luck

Luckily your grandma has a grandchild who can do that for her.

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