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Comment by pyb | Hacker News Reader

In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.

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You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact.

So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen.

But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

Are you certain about that?

I’m having a new service entry cable, meter box, and main breaker panel put in next week. By its nature that should impact every single circuit in my house. But my electrician isn’t touching anything besides what I listed above, and I know that there are multiple other things around the house not up to current code.

You may live in a place where the law doesn't require that. Or you may have found an electrician willing to turn a blind eye to that stuff. Or you might be about to get a far larger bill than expected when the electrician 'discovers' that midway through the job, and now isn't legally allowed to put it back as he found it.

I’m in NY, US and and the proper permit was pulled for the job, as well as hiring an independent inspector to check the work when finished. My particular electrician has been doing business for ~30 years so I doubt he’s risking violations over things like that, plus he would have to be colluding with the inspector. He already did an inspection of the work needed and planned it, it would be impossible for him to suddenly notice other things that need to be done.

The price I’m paying for this job lines right up with the national job average pricing you can find online. If it was common to require doing all of that extra code updating I would think the average price should be much higher.

Maybe I’m wrong but my thought is that it isn’t so black+white and some electricians may push upsells harder than other more honest ones.

would you mind sharing a link to that resource. Is there a union rate webpage or something of the like where you can dial in your region and type of work etc like an online calculator or is there just some table printed somewhere online?

You have an electrician and AHJ that understands the NEC correctly. In this case, there are explicit exceptions written in code (210.12(B)), but that's an exception to a new part of code. In the general case, replacing like-for-like is permitted, so long as the original met code at the time of installation.

It seems US is way more overregulated when it comes to electricity or building in general.

And every time I see a video online of a dance floor or stadium collapsing or people getting electrocuted by accidentally touching ungrounded electrical devices I'm reminded why. That's not to say those things don't happen here, just at a lower frequency. Safety standards are written in blood after all.

Structure collapses are extremely rare, which is why they are always news. I am not unhappy with the state of regulation when it comes to building structures that have the potential to kill hundreds or thousands of people at a time.

However I think many locations in the US way overdo regulation when it comes to residential building codes. When you buy a house, you get a professional inspection. If it comes up dangerous, then you are armed with the knowledge to make a risk decision that’s right for you.

I don’t need spacecraft level engineering on my car; similarly i don’t need skyscraper level engineering on my house.

Presumably you pull out a report and do a rundown of all the not to spec electrical work before any guests enter the house? Or are you making the safety call for them too?

And vice versa, do you ask any hosts whose house you are about to enter whether they have any out-of-spec electrical work before entering the house?

You could leave off everything after “overregulated” and still be correct.

This is not correct for my city...

might be easier to add a new circuit

The general rule in most places is that any circuits that aren't modified as part of the new work don't need to be brought up to modern code. The main service panel is the main thing that ends up needing to be upgraded incidentally, since all circuits depend on it, and that can easily be more expensive than the actual work being done. But that only needs to be done once, and many old houses will want it upgraded anyway to allow for more circuits to be added than the box was originally designed to accommodate.

However, I think the 10 years is a bit pessimistic. At least in the US, the code hasn't changed that much in the last 20-30 years, and many of the changes are at the periphery where they are easy to modify like GFCIs, and tamper resistant outlets, etc, so I wouldn't be afraid of making modifications to existing circuits for houses in that range. Older than that you start running into (AA-1350) aluminum wiring (35 years or older) or two-conductor wiring (65 years or older), and you'll want to take the policy of not touching those old circuits unless you plan on completely replacing them.

I don't think it's unreasonable to update to code when other changes are made.

Generally (in the USA) if you touch something in your home, you need to bring it up to code. You touch a wall, well now you need to make sure that wall has a socket in it, for example.

Doing an addition? Well, now you need to ensure the entire house has fire/C02 detectors wired together with it.

> Generally (in the USA) if you touch something in your home, you need to bring it up to code. You touch a wall, well now you need to make sure that wall has a socket in it, for example.

Sorry, is there a requirement that every single wall should have a socket? ...that's what extension cords are for.

> that's what extension cords are for.

That's exactly why every wall is required to have an outlet now, to reduce the use of extension cords.

Yes, there are also requirements for example that kitchens have an outlet every N feet (I forget the exact number) in order that the short cords supplied on toasters, kettles etc can reach every part of the counter surface without an extension.

Extension cords are a bad idea. Especially since you can buy 10A rated cords that can be plugged into 15A sockets.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-55-ft-16-3-Green-Outdoor-Ext...

There's a really good explanation in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_q-xnYRugQ

Then the fuse would blow, right?

The fuse wouldn't blow because you couldn't draw enough amperage through the cord to trigger it. Instead, the cord would melt and start a fire.

That extension cord doesn't have a fuse.

Every wall more than 24 inch in size needs an outlet, and for longer walls you need an outlet every 12 feet.

In a kitchen scenario, every counter top more than a foot needs an outlet and for longer counter top runs you need one every 4 feet.

This is not correct. I finished my entire basement, and nothing outside the basement needed to be updated to the current NEC.

I said addition, not finishing a basement. But if your basement had a wall that wasn't up to code and it was part of your finishing, you'd have to bring that wall up.

Generally, no, this isn't the case.

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