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Comment by anikom15 | Hacker News Reader

I think IF can teach people that they don’t actually need to eat very much, and that they mostly eat out of habit.

I have only ever eaten food when I’m actually hungry, ever since I was born, and have always been thin. Some people say I’m too thin.

Often eating is a chore for me, and I’ll push myself to do other things until I am absolutely starving. My eating habits have changed with age. When I was young I would have to eat three or four times a day. As I get older I only need one or two meals.

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> I have only ever eaten food when I’m actually hungry, ever since I was born, and have always been thin.

Some people are hungry a lot. For a variety of reasons. For example, the choice of previous foods they've eaten can result in increased hunger. As can metabolism. And activity level. I suspect microbiome as well, although I don't recall specifically reading anything about that. Depending on the person, stress may increase hunger or decrease it. Depression can have the same impact of either increasing or decreasing hunger. Some of the people experiencing increased hunger may gain weight, some won't.

Different people also get different levels of pleasure from eating. Some very little, some very much. The effects on serotonin, dopamine, and endorphins differs from person to person. I know I saw one study once where they found that the pleasure centers of the brain lit up much more than average in overweight people when they merely thought about their favorite foods, and much less than average in people who had been thin their entire lives.

I think you're correct in that many people eat out of habit. They also eat from boredom. Some people begin to feel hungry merely at the mention of food.

So I don't think it's as simple as telling people to only eat when they are hungry. Although that's a good rule of thumb, you may need to also address some of the other factors (like food choice, depression, etc.) if you want a given individual to remain at a healthy weight.

What I've learned from a sample size of one, myself, is that I think "I'm hungry" in two cases. First, is when I'm actually hungry. For example, when I don't eat for a day while doing stuff. Then, the more common one, is when I just "feel like eating", two hours after a nice meal.

Intermittent fasting and portion control helped me differentiate the two, as well as, as you point out, see the effects the different kinds of food have on my feeling hungry two hours later.

What I find is that it's usually the second kind of "hunger" which has the worst effect on my concentration. It's when I know I have this or that snack lying around, and I keep thinking about having some, and the only way to calm that thought is to go and eat.

The first kind has a much different effect, I just feel like I have no strength, and it makes me think of eating "actual" food.

> So I don't think it's as simple as telling people to only eat when they are hungry.

I think you're right, but I also think that it's possible to teach people to listen to their bodies and learn the effects different foods have on the feeling of hunger.

The issue is that some foods, especially in restaurants, are "foods that make you hungry" disguised as "healthy meals". Think salads or just a piece of meat with vegetables, but drenched in some sugary-fatty sauce.

I very much doubt that most people in the western world who complain about being „hungy“ have ever experienced actually being hungry.

If you don't eat for about day (or longer), the short-term glucose storage will be depleted, ketosis starts and you'll actually feel hungry - though it usually fades once the body adapts to breaking down fat and proteins.

Having an empty, possibly even grumbling stomach or feeling appetite/ craving for sugar isn't hunger. I can recommend trying out to fast for a couple of days in order to experience the difference. I've kinda intuitively shifted to intermittent fasting afterwards and usually don't have any urge to eat food until after noon.

Thank you. I have been permanently hungry since the day I was born (according to my mom), and it takes a lot of effort to avoid being overweight.

The best way for me to mitigate it is to eat very large amount of vegetables, the problem is that I can really have those amounts at home, not really at a restaurant.

I love jam. It’s my kryptonite. When I’m depressed, in a medical grade depressive episode, I have to force down jam. Forget healthy food that takes time to prepare. Hunger is indeed mostly in the brain.

> I have only ever eaten food when I’m actually hungry

That's very good for you, be glad your genetics / environment enable you to not be hungry, as stupid as it sounds. I'm always hungry, I can always just eat until my belly hurts (with regrets after). I'm under control, do a lot of high intensity cardio and muscle training to increase my total metabolism and practice strong discipline to not overeat. I'm thin with some nice muscles now, but as soon as I let myself go and let "nature" take over, I'll gain weight again because I'm hungry and always was. I'm not complaining, my genetics / environment enabled me to do other things most other people can't do. Life is not fair and the universe owes us nothing.

> Often eating is a chore for me, and I’ll push myself to do other things until I am absolutely starving

I'm pretty sure some people (like me) get endorphins from food and get actual enjoyment from the process. These people have issues with overeating and eating too often because food tastes GOOD.

Then for others it's just that boring time when you have to chew and swallow stuff for your stupid body not to die. These are the folks who could just sustain themselves with Soylent Green and be 100% happy.

I enjoy food, but only food that actually tastes good. Considering how terrible most restaurant food is where I live (Los Angeles), and from others’ cooking, I don’t think most people actually enjoy food or even know what it’s supposed to taste like. I think they just eat it and it makes them happy because they’ve been conditioned that way.

Whenever I have the opportunity to dine at a foreign restaurant, or in a foreign country, or with someone who is simply a good cook, the food is much better. There is something wrong with America’s food.

EDIT: A good example of this is Costco’s chickens. They are just a salty mess. I had a meal recently where there was some good homemade food coupled with that chicken as a disgusting centerpiece. I didn’t eat very much of it.

> There is something wrong with America’s food.

Most definitely. There are multiple anecdata of people coming from US to anywhere in Europe and eating whatever they can find - and still they lose weight and feel better.

It's just the fact that in the EU producers need to prove their ingredients aren't harmful. In the US they just need to prove they aren't literal poison, and even that's ok if the amounts are small enough and you lobby the correct senators.

Or just the fact that Subway's bread is legally considered cake in Ireland, because it has too much _sugar_ in it.

not only that but my sleep patterns and weather often drive my eating patterns. I'm a little overweight and out of shape right now (southern hemisphere) but i'm working on that again now its summer. Prior to the recent winter I has dropped a good 13kg and was feeling great.

then winter hit and I lost control again. I made almost all of that back again.

winter makes me stay up late, and eat poorly (soul food, comfort food). Sleeping in, getting not enough sleep and cold weather are all known triggers for me.

> I think IF can teach people that they don’t actually need to eat very much, and that they mostly eat out of habit.

> I have only ever eaten food when I’m actually hungry

When I was quite young we ate everything because of food anxiety. My parents were very good at trying to keep those risks become overtly visible to us kids, though there were of course some lapses, but they required behavior like always finishing with completely empty plates, regardless with what had been on them. Who knew what might be for dinner tomorrow, much less how much?

Later things were not as precarious, and as an adult, never have been. Nevertheless I was unable to shed the "grad student at a buffet" mentality until I happened to try IF.

Nowadays I work out every day and still only eat once or twice a day. I can never finish even one dish at a restaurant any more.

Huh, I also eat only when I am hungry and I have struggled with weight my entire life.

You talk as if people just need to "learn" about how/when to eat. I assure you, the majority of people that overeat know they are overeating.

As I get older I realize I need to lift weights and try and gain more muscle and strength. Reducing my caloric intake would hinder that.

It seems possible to do intermittent fasting (for example the typical 16 hours fasted / 8 hours eating schedule) and still get enough calories. You just have to fit them into the 8 hours.

My own problem is that if I skip any meal I get hungry enough that my brain doesn't work well and I can't sleep. But I'm already as light as I can get without being dangerously underweight, so maybe that's my body sending a valid message.

Regarding hunger, it only takes a week or two of changing your eating pattern to have your brain realize that your old mealtime is no longer mealtime. After that you won't get a spike in hunger from "skipping" what used to be your mealtime, because it isn't any more. But if you are happy then don't change anything (or maybe eat more total?), unless you just want to experiment.

> Reducing my caloric intake

IF isn't really about reducing caloric intake as such.

If I remember correctly Terry Crews eats something like 4000 calories during his window of eating, but fasts for the remaining 16 hours.

That said, if you're trying to lose weight, it is probably the laziest way to eat less for someone who can't cook their own food (or doesn't want to).

Skipping a meal is much easier than convincing the family to add cauliflower rice or go keto with the breads. There's very little substitution going on that someone else has to sign up, if you share a life with them. You can share meals when it is the family meal time.

I will say that fasting is much less social media friendly, because I can't really post a bunch of photos of meals I've skipped to feel good about the life change I've made.

You definitely don't have to reduce caloric intake while on IF! I put 8 kg of muscles and broke all PBs in powerlifting disciplines while on IF and at nearly 40 years of age.

My post is more about maintaining a steady weight. If you are trying to gain you will have to eat more even if you’re not hungry.

Be careful you don't end up wrecking your joints and/or tendons.

That's actually a common misconception. Weight lifting has the lowest incidence of I jury compared to other sports like soccer, running or even biking.

Does biking and running factor in vehicle injuries?

Fasting fasting (2-3 days) was incredibly informative for me for the same reason.

The #1 trigger for me to eat something boredom, the #2 the clock, #3 food being within arms reach, #4 food being visible ... #99 actual hunger.

Keep in mind that not eating "very much" can also lead you to getting used to eating too little, and losing muscle mass and energy. Eating as little as possible is not a good goal either, but IF can lead you towards it. Depending on what you eat, you sometimes need to force yourself to eat maintenance calories.

Do you not get any sort of satisfaction from food?

I've dropped alcohol starting January, for a whole lot of 6 days. Instead I found eating way more just seeking for some pleasure/dopamine.

Gaming and similar time wasting did help a little, but not enough.

I enjoy food almost as much as I enjoy alcohol. I’m neither a glutton nor an alcoholic. This is a false dichotomy.

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