We were about to be a two Tesla house this year and now there is 0% chance we’ll be that after the latest shenanigans. Although my car is well made, I’m a little embarrassed to drive it around now.
If I made my purchasing decisions according to the personal failings of the corporate executive teams of all of consumer and durable goods, I might as well live in a tent in the woods.
Used Tesla pricing going down is great, makes EV mobility affordable for the less well off. If you associate with someone who judges you for your vehicle purchase, find better people!
I don't see climate change in there but the other stuff and masks etc.
does 'exploiting African children for cobalt' feature in list of values.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-c...
How do you reconcile your 'buying things based on values' by supporting people who exploit children.
A. The parent has a smart phone.
B. The parents smart phone contains cobalt from the Congo.
C. That the parent isn't doing anything to minimise their purchase of new phones by using them longer, only buying second hand etc.
And that's all assuming that this is indeed a value they hold.
And even with all that, there's plenty of stuff wrong with the world. For a multi thousand dollar purchase I'd spend more time thing about the ethical implications than something that is smaller. We all have to pick and choose our battles, I don't think you can damn anyone for not being happy about the system but still engaging with it.
> We all have to pick and choose our battles
yes agreed why not choose the most egregious then if you are taking a moral stance. Children digging out cobalt with their bare hands for your EV should outrank whatever stupid stuff elon is doing. no?
But anyway, humans aren't perfectly rational beings. Elon being a nob on twitter is more immediate to many people than abstract children in the Congo. I'm not saying that's morally correct, but it's how people work.
>Last year, many took to social media using the hashtag #NoCongoNoPhone to fight against the cobalt supply
Sounds like a win/win to me. End the terrible scourge of child labor, and end the lesser (but far more prevalent) scourge of ubiquitous smart phones.
Its not one of your values because there was some hashtag?
Not sure if you are making a sarcastic joke about the hashtag but how are child miners 'winners'?
Above the poster said they would not buy a Tesla and you implied they would be supporting child miners by doing so? Where the article you linked associates Tesla with child labour in cobalt mining.
Here the poster said ending child labour was a 'win' and "how are child miners 'winners'" - aren't you in agreement that ending child labour is a 'win'?
I’m not obsessively political about my purchases, but I’m also not 100% amoral/apolitical. I’m curious if anyone really is.
Elon Musk's involvement with the companies he is associated with is not the usual involvement that an executive team would have. His personal brand is intermingled with the products he sells and cars are a way of signaling social status whether we like it or not. There are certainly people for whom buying a new Tesla would decrease their social capital which could have negative impacts in other areas of their life (relevant to HN, social capital converts to actual capital in many cases by opening up business opportunities).
We're in a grace period right now when it comes to driving a Tesla, where people who already owned one can't really be blamed for supporting Musk, but the day has already arrived when buying a new one will signal poor taste and lack of social acumen to much of the white collar class.
Vulgarity is relative so if your crowd isn't this crowd, fine. But you can't blame people for wanting to avoid putting stigma on themselves when there are other EVs on the market nearly as good as Teslas which don't have the same toxicity.
All you've told me here is that the people you personally associate would laugh at the idea that Tesla is a toxic brand. The world is not made up of a single social group with a single set of norms. In the groups I associate with, and no we are not blue haired SJWs I am married with a family in the suburbs and work a boring corporate job, Tesla is toxic.
Some things I try to keep in mind as much as possible:
- We are all operating from different frames of reference.
- Social networks are fundamental to our survival: people will go to great lengths to stay in the good graces of their families, friends and associates.
- "Society" is a huge tapestry of interlocking social networks, each with its own internal logic and reward systems.
- The logic and reward systems of the most powerful networks tend to leak into all the others over time to some degree.
Here's one being quoted [0]
[0] https://www.carscoops.com/2022/12/tesla-investors-and-custom...
Ironically pretending that we don't play social signaling games and critiquing others for playing them is itself a sort of social signaling game. These games can't be avoided because they are a fundamental part of human interaction, so much so that when we aren't good at playing those games for whatever reason we are unable to function properly in society and are pathologized as a result.
...
>I’d like to associate with like minded folks
And how do you signal to like minded folks?
A car specifically might not be important to you as a signaller but if you do want to associate with like minded folks you are going to seek to emulate and fit in with those groups. That's kind of how society and humans work.
We'll see if that comes to pass. I'm guessing it won't, but if it does I'll adjust accordingly to the new reality as will we all.
For the same price, you can get a nicer ICE.
That is why Elon’s actions are so weird. I agree with you that a chicken sandwich or paper towel executive can do whatever, but EVs are a status and signaling thing…
That is your opinion, which you’re of course entitled to. My Teslas are, to me, the best cars I could buy. That’s value. I’m looking forward to my Cybertruck as well.
The point of EVs for the time being is minimizing inconveniences (charging) and maximizing intangible value (virtue signaling, being “the life of the party” with your built in cooler/outlets, having a futurist interior with a bad but polished infotainment panel, etc etc).
Elon is cratering one of those things rn and it does feel like a Howard Hughes moment. Hey maybe there’s something about launching satellites! Who knows!
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-making-excuses-for-no...
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/15/u-s-eyes-new-weapon...
Elon is a loud mouthed idiot, but the world is full of loud mouthed idiots.
What's lasting, however, is that reputation for making poorly built vehicles. Even today, people would rather buy Japanese, Korean, or German than to buy, say, a buick. All because the reputation for making poorly built vehicles was never shaken by some American auto makers. I think Tesla will suffer the same fate, because to date, they haven't even conceded that they may have an issue.
Considering the fact that he is the CEO of at least 3 huge companies, and that he has the same 24 hours/day as the rest of us, many of which he spends shitposting on Twitter, it’s clear CEO is at best a part time job (at least the way Musk does it).
The guy expects his workers to put in 80 hours a week at their jobs. At best completely foregoing sleep, he can do the same for 2 of his CEO roles, meaning that one is going completely neglected according to his own standards.
In any case, I have no hero worship to apologize for. Not with regard to Musk anyway.
However, for me it's because I've been blown away with the versatility and dependability of the model Y so I see no reason to get a new car for the next decade.
Would you tolerate a poor product experience if you agreed with the CEO's politics?
Which shenanigans are you referring to?
I'd like to think he's just being an edgelord to drive engagement on his platform, but considering he tweeted stupid stuff before he owned twitter (eg accusing his critics of being pedophiles), I have my doubts.
And let's not pretend Elon is sticking up for "free speech." He's censoring folks who don't agree with him. That isn't free speech, unless you subscribe to fascist definitions of "free speech."
I don't understand how people don't get this?
It's like saying "Trump's bad, but what about Thomas Jefferson and slavery!"
It just leaves people scratching their heads.
Really sad fall from grace for Elon. Could've just kept working.
In general, “past, extremely dead, person was awful; this excuses the current awful person” is _not_ a great argument. It also seems to be a fairly new invention; I’ve only really seen it in the last decade.
Not even going to address the free speech thing, except to say that you must be using a very 1984 “war is peace” sort of definition there…
He's running Twitter in a very erratic manner and demonstrating very poor judgement. It's completely reasonable not to trust someone like that with your family's safety.
What Elon has done however is put the spotlight on Twitter, almost every issue people have with it is a “preexisting condition”.
Musk revealed files implicating the FBI, CIA and Pentagon but oh my God he voted Republican so he’s evil!