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Comment by jll29 | Hacker News Reader

> You are not required to carry your ID card with you.

"I am not a lawyer" but:

"Deutsche im Sinne des Art. 116 Abs. 1 GG sind nach § 1 Personalausweisgesetz (PAuswG) verpflichtet, sobald sie 16 Jahre alt sind und der allgemeinen Meldepflicht unterliegen oder sich überwiegend in Deutschland aufhalten, einen gültigen Ausweis zu besitzen und ihn auf Verlangen einer zur Feststellung der Identität berechtigten Behörde vorzulegen sowie einen Abgleich mit dem Lichtbild des Ausweises zu ermöglichen."

You must either carry a national ID document or, if you are requested to identify yourself by the police, make it available to them in reasonable time on request (say, if you left it at home, show it to them at a police station the next day).

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The law never states that you are required to carry your ID. It states that you are required to own one.

If you do not carry it with you, and have no why for them to identify you in a way that you can be looked up, e.g. because you have your ID number in your password manager, the police can summon you to the station, or escort you home or a variety of other protocols. The police like to convince you otherwise, because it makes their job easier. When children are taught about their ID in school, this is often accompanied by a police official. As you can see in the law itself, this is not true.

However, this only applies to German citizens, and EU citizens, if you are in Germany on a visa or any other type of scheme, you are in fact required to carry you ID and documents with you at all times. In that case not carrying an ID is actually an offense with harsh punishments. In reality most of these situations are handled like with normal citizens though.

Edit: improve formatting

That seems like a distinction without a difference.

If you’re required to have it and present it on demand, then almost everyone will carry it, and the tiny minority not carrying their card will be automatically suspicious.

It’s a very short step from there to simply requiring that it be on your persons.

In the text says it clearly: you must have an ID, and you have to present it if requested. That does not means, you have to have it with you at all times.

Exactly this is the kind of fine details that a lawyer distinguishes in the law.

So no. Absolutely no. You do not have to carry it with you. If it comes to the need, then maybe the police have to scort you to your home and you have to show the ID. But you are not requested to have it with you at all times.

Except technology makes it possible to constantly send get requests to everyone not carrying it. The limiting factor here was how much time police was willing to waste.

Slippery slopes work exactly because people are incapable to predict the long term consequences for eroding safety standards and are at the same time arrogant enough to believe to be very much capable. Its cognitive biases at work in selecting some of the most reckless approaches for dangerous situations.

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