Can replace mathematicians with whatever, it still works. It's just basic social human nature and the conversation it stirs leads to good things that might not happen if remained unsaid.
I have noticed this kind of thing. I've done therapy on and off (sometimes reactively, like after my Dad died; sometimes a little more pro-actively, like when I had a brutal case of writer's block during my dissertation prospectus). Never anything I would rate as very serious or urgent. I would say the therapy was not un-useful, in the sense that I didn't mind taking time out of my day to talk to someone. But I also basically felt like the eventual remediation mostly just stemmed from the acute phase passing or steps I took outside therapy. The thing that got me over my writer's block was mostly writing. The thing that helped me deal with my Dad dying was mostly more time passing and my life moving on.
Meanwhile, I have noticed that a lot of people in my life with higher distress loads, and particularly people like the author of this piece who report suffering from fairly serious mental illness, invest a lot of resources into self-help. I think that's a good instinct, to say "I have a problem and this is a tool that will help fix it", analogous to seeking medical care for a physical ailment. But my experience is that the vast majority of those people seem to make little apparent progress via self-help, and instead typically continue to report being extremely distressed (though, punctuated with confessionals about how much better things are). For most people levels of distress in life seem to me to be primarily associated with lifelong, or early socialized dispositions; or with major material facts of life (i.e. single/married, broke/affluent, healthy/sick, undergoing a major life change/being severely stuck/doing fine) rather than the particular steps they take to manage or mitigate it. That doesn't mean therapy doesn't work, because maybe the counterfactual is they would have gotten much worse absent therapy.
A few friends from when I was a teenager, people who really struggled with severely gnarly upbringings, abuse, broken homes, early life drug dependency, etc. even went into becoming therapists or social workers. And the strange thing is, it externally seems to me like they're about as troubled as they were 20+ years ago, modulo having a little more money.
I guess I would distinguish a lot of these cases from people who are acutely suicidal, people who are actively seeking drug rehabilitation, etc. There seems to be at least some evidence for intervention in those cases. But I am talking about the kind of cases I think you're talking about.
So to your broader point, despite again the fact that it's expressed a bit stridently, I think there's something there: the evangelism about self-help's benefits often seems to outstrip self-help's apparent benefits. There's probably some element where part of therapy is basically tricking your brain, so the apparent sentiment of someone who is clearly having a hard time beaming about how much better they're doing might be part of the plan anyway. But externally it can feel jarring to hear "I'm really turning a corner!!!" from someone who's been struggling for years and continues to struggle.
When it comes down to it, I'd rather have tools and not need them than need them and not have them.
It's a bit like saying: I went to the dentist and he told me to do this in order to improve the way I brush my teeth. Why am I telling you this even if you don't need to go to a dentist? Because prevention is for everyone.
(Please be sensitive with responses. It would be a shame if HN’s automated NLP moved this cute app off the front page because the comments became inflammatory.)
"Hey everyone, you all thought I was fine but I've actually been deeply unhappy and struggling! I'm now going to pay a stranger with a dubious educational background $300/hr as part of a long and arduous process that sometimes takes years and has mixed results. Isn't that great?"
If she had announced she was starting chemo people would be weeping. Instead she announced she has another chronic, difficult, expensive, and occasionally fatal health issue and everyone is super jazzed about it??? I'm amazed more people don't have strong negative reactions to therapy
They are excited that someone who needs treatment has decided to get it; not that she needs treatment in the first place. Recovery from mental health problems is extremely difficult, but it's more difficult when you don't seek any treatment or take any steps to feel better. It also reminds someone who is feeling sad and alone that she has friends who deeply care about her and her emotions.
You'll see the same reaction when someone says "I've decided to quit drinking/smoking/gambling/etc" even if they aren't seeking outside help. The friends are happy and excited to see a friend improving their life, not excited or happy that their friend has an addiction in the first place.
The reaction you saw in the cancer situation would be the same if everyone knew the friend had cancer but refused to get treatment for it then announced they were finally seeking medical treatment.
Using myself as an (admittedly very specific, not universal) example: my employer is paying my tuition, and the university has a free program. Most therapists in the 200,000-person city in which I grew up have a sliding scale that goes down to $60.00 per hour, and that's only if you're paying entirely out of pocket.
I love coming back to this site. It's absolutely incredible how many different ways people can find to say "Fuck you!" The Internet is endlessly creative.
Edit: it's not so bad after all
What's the source on that NLP stuff on HN, never heard of it, I'm curious to read more.
"Flame-War Detector" discusses the NLP a bit. [2] Also, it's implied by the second answer in the FAQ. [3]
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[2] https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented#flame-...
And it is somewhat paradoxical to enforce toxic, seemingly insincere positivity in a post about mental health.
Thank you for the Github links, that's an interesting ranking mechanism.
It's just a well-done and very helpful app. It's current position at the top of the front page shows that I'm not alone in this sentiment. Again, I only wanted for others in need of the boost to their day to get access to the link. As I mentioned (in another comment where someone else agrees with you that my positivity is unhelpful), the app isn't needed by everyone.
It's not rocket science to understand that a recent/timestamp-young post on the front page is more sensitive to algorithmic downranking. I just did what I could to defend a positive sentiment in the comment section for long enough that the link could establish itself. It's all in the spirit of promoting well-being among the users of HN. I appreciate your feedback (though I'm a little bit confused as to why you view my actions in a negative light). Does the success of my endeavor to establish the post on the front page of HN not show that my motivation aligns with the attitude around here? (Perhaps it has nothing to do with me, I acknowledge that (but doubt it.))
Your welcome for the GitHub links. That whole repo fascinates me.
In your opinion.
>It's current position at the top of the front page shows that I'm not alone in this sentiment.
To a more cynical person it also suggests that one group of posters is very highly motivated to push this topic. And may even be doing so in an organized effort, rather than as individuals posting their genuine opinions.
>It's all in the spirit of promoting well-being among the users of HN.
"Have you heard the good news of our Lord and Saviour?"
And listening to casual conversations in US soaps, it is rather obvious from a bystander perspective that therapy-is-something-you-want is an agenda that is being pushed since at least 20 years.
Sorry for sticking my nose in your business.
comfypotato's comments in particular read like something out of Demolition Man. Be well citizen, and have joy-joy feelings!
To be less personal about it, it's also a general pattern I have noticed, not just with your posts.
It's relevant to the discussion that I think the notion that everyone needs therapy and medication is absurd. I continue to see a therapist as a barrier put into place to make sure I don't move in a negative direction regarding the more serious personal issues (and take appropriate/healthy actions when a significant problem arises).
Internal Family Systems is a better therapy technique, IMHO, however it requires a therapist with special training and takes more time for a patient to figure out.
It really helped me deal with a difficult time in my life. YMMV I guess
How many do you mean here? All therapy consumers? Most of them? Some of them? One of them?
As for me, I proudly seek guidance, and have, for almost my entire life. In fact, today is a day when I'll be seeking more than usual, as life happens.
Philosophy, ethics, politics, these are things humans love talking about. What's a more universal conversation than the human condition?
Idk why you don't find it interesting to talk about, to me that's eccentric.