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Comment by SoftTalker | Hacker News Reader

Very senior/wealthy people can get away with whatever they want. It's why Zuckerberg can look like a total slob at Facebook (notice he still wore a suit while testifying to Congress though).

If a senior executive wore a $200 suit to work, nobody would say a word.

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Zuckerberg wears $800 tshirts amongst other carefully selected pieces of his wardrobe. He isn’t rummaging through a local Target for a basic tee and jeans. I think this is a good example of countersignal interpretation!

$800 tshirts have the same fabric as a Uniqlo tshirt (or maybe worse?).

> amongst other carefully selected pieces of his wardrobe

so if it was not that carefully selected, he'd look like a homeless?

> Zuckerberg can look like a total slob at Facebook

Huh, custom tshirts and well fitting jeans counts as "looking like a total slob" now? Fwiw I'd rather work with / for someone that dresses like that over formal any day of the week.

Yes.

I like t-shirts and jeans and never want to go back to suits and ties but..

When I went to Japan a decade ago, I realized just how informal and slovenly American working attire had become.

Notice how that's all for show too. Relatedly, Japanese people often don't work harder than Americans, they simply stay at the office longer. I also prefer what lack of formal attire signals: in Japanese workplaces, the more senior, the more respect for their ideas, regardless of whether the idea is actually better. Formal attire legitimizes their seniority but I'd rather have a meritocratic system of vetting ideas, and informality signals that too.

This is true.

Though I think many imitate regardless of the tribe/workforce/culture in order to fit in.

Look at the schools. It’s informal but there are definitely trends and fashions to follow in order to relate.

Just a thought, but the change in attire, then, is to create some formal distance between management and direct reports.

Japanese suits/uniforms are often pretty cheap (and look that way) - thus the low end “recruit suit”. They are tailored, but the level of body-fitting they are would be actively unacceptable in the US. By which I mean, everyone would think you’re gay.

On the other hand, Japan is the home of expensive high end recreations of American casual clothes - look up Take Ivy, BEAMS, nice selvedge jeans, etc.

> On the other hand, Japan is the home of expensive high end recreations of American casual clothes - look up Take Ivy, BEAMS, nice selvedge jeans, etc.

I remember some acquaintances running a decent side business buying and then selling vintage American clothes back in Japan (shipping or flying back).

This was back in the 1990s so I believe it.

(it also brought back some fond memories)

When Japanese enthusiasts scoured American thrift stores for the last remaining stock of vintage American denim, it supposedly constituted the largest ever transfer of clothing from the USA to Japan, exceeding even the postwar used clothing charity drives.

But the point is everyone looks like they’re trying to conform to the dress code. Much better than America, where just when you think it’s hit bottom, people plumb the depths further. (Most recently, by way of hair, tattoos, earrings on men, etc.)

I have rings in both my ears and sleeve tattoos on both arms. What does that say about me?

That you are a barista at Starbucks or someone with self image issues. On a more serious note such people appear to me as conformists. Everyone has tattoos today. They buy them like burgers at McDonalds. In the past you'd eaen them in navy, army or prison. It said something about the person - it doesn't say anything about you now. Except perhaps that you want to seen in certain way without living it. E.g. look like a rockstar without being one. Why take the risks of adventurous life you can just buy a tatoo with the money from your IT job. Just another form pf consumption. Of course all depends on tatoo, I'm talking about your typical tatooed dude from western country.

I like that it means both that I have self-image issues and that I'm a conformist.

"I work in IT"

Kinda, right?

Twenty years ago those would signal strongly that you don't depend on or respect social conventions. Now, that you have a lot of disposable income.

Twenty years ago there was a law and order episode where someone said that even school teachers got tattoos then :)

Ah yes 20 years ago is not the 90s anymore I keep forgetting...

What I've learned from my girlfriend is that you enjoy having a needle put in you, especially if it's large enough to feel.

Hmm. No. It's definitely not that.

that you will live a long life and success is ahead

Means you have spent a lot of money on pain.

That and the dog from "Duck Hunt".

I think it means you like teasing people.

I’m sure it’s a Samoan or Celtic ancestry thing.

I was a little surprised to see some lawyers at a recent medium-sized company who had tattoos. And not just small butterflies.

We shouldn't be. Barring dominance by some fundamentalist group, be it religious, cultural, or political, humans have had piercings and tattoos. I like that fact that it is no longer countercultural to adopt these basic human expressions.

Tattoos are frowned upon in most cultures in the world. It's not just "fundamentalists" (whatever that means). And who cares about "human expression?" If you need to "express" yourself, write a book or something where the rest of us don't have to look at it.

America would be a lot better if people thought less about how to “express” themselves, and more about how to keep the social environment around them tidy and orderly.

It's true, I'm expressing support for the Yakuza, and helping them tear down the social fabric of western society. That's been the left's plan all along.

If anyone is showing that they have problems in this thread, it's definitely not the people with tattoos.

>By which I mean, everyone would think you’re gay. Is this really true, though? Plenty of straight dudes wear tight fitting clothing, especially if they work out.

Perhaps it's just a higher ratio of gay guys that work out vs straight guys that work out that's skewed your views.

Well, it's only in the context of the radical casualization of menswear since the mid-60s that jeans and a t-shirt can be seen as stylish. When men first started wearing this outfit, it was considered rebellious in part because it was so obviously inappropriate to wear in public. The t-shirt originated as a military undergarment and jeans as mining equipment.

True, but they are more likely to wear a $400 hoodie than a $200 suit.

Outside SBF, even the executives dressing "casually" are still doing so expensively.

If a sr exec wore a $200 suit to work, it would be noticed. Maybe in a warren buffet folksy sort of way. How they tell defense attorneys not to dress too flashy

(notice he still wore a suit while testifying to Congress though).

Don't like the guy, his company, his policies. And I tend to repect our elected officals more than most.

But the idea of showing up dressed in a t-shirt and jeans, and/or a hoodie, make me smile broadly.

You may enjoy Dee Snider's speech to the Senate: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Vyr1TylTE

Amusing, thanks. Doubly amusing that the garb was a strategy.

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