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Comment by elijaht | Hacker News Reader

I don't see how that is relevant. Nearly all of the criticisms posed (maybe not the snow one?) would still be relevant to a driver in the situation you describe. This has nothing to do with range or even the fact that it's electric

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These sorts of posts always show up anywhere that somebody posts anything remotely critical of a Tesla product. They could make a combination trash compactor-bassinet that randomly switches modes and somebody would come out of the woodwork and post “People don’t realize the value in maximizing functionality in small spaces”

Most of the criticism assumes people will be in these cabs for 8 hours at a time. They won't. This is for very short trips. We are talking 80-100 mi each way. 2-3 hrs in each direction, max. It's not for independent truckers.

Even in this case what advantage it has over existing electric trucks which don’t have these design flaws?

What existing electric trucks?

Here are four examples for you:

Mercedes: https://electrek.co/2022/09/19/mercedes-benz-eactros-longhau...

Scania: https://www.scania.com/group/en/home/products-and-services/t...

Volvo: https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/trucks/alternative-fuels/e...

DAF: https://www.daf.com/en/about-daf/sustainability/alternative-...

Are any of these actually for sale yet? I work for a trucking company that says they ”have” alternative energy vehicles, but nothing is shipping yet.

https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1600970796159336449

Mercedes, Volvo, Nikola, Renault.

In an ideal environment the operating cost of a Tesla Semi is about 1/3rd (conservative estimate) that of a diesel.

That environment is, again, very specific. But if your routes are short and predictable, you have massive warehouse space for solar, and you can get your average electricity cost as low as Tesla can then it pays off. 1 million miles in a diesel is going to cost well over $1 million dollars (including the price of the cab). With a Tesla Semi that cost is at least half… IF you can get the electricity cost low enough.

There are several other electric semis, the thread lists their manufacturers at the end.

Yes there are: https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/trucks/alternative-fuels/e...

What about the 4 examples of other electric semis shared at the end of the original thread?

https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1600970796159336449

TFA references several competing electric truck makers such as https://nikolamotor.com/tre-bev

Nikola was convicted of securities fraud last year for faking their electric truck. They finally delivered 48 trucks this year, and then all of them were immediately recalled for safety issues. I think the fact that the author referenced them as viable alternatives is pretty emblematic of how accurate the thread is.

You have to run 3x as many of them, because they move less than 1/3 the freight per run.

Unless you are moving toilet paper or packing peanuts.

This is my issue. You're replying but clearly you are missing that there arent any electric semis to compete with.

The author of the thread also clearly hasn't ridden a tesla semi, so he is just assuming that eg the mirrors can't be cleaned either from the inside nor the outside. Isnt that a bit too bad of a take?

I mean I love to read about his experience, but many of his points of criticism seem hypothetical.

> there arent any electric semis to compete with.

What do you mean? The author of the Twitter thread mentions four electric semi options in the thread.

i see

80-100 miles from Port of Long Beach being 2-3 hours? Have you ever driven on the 110, 405, 105, or 605?

That doesn't seem to be the case at all? The windscreen complaint is about what happens when the vehicle is parked. The baffling "seat is in the middle" decision affects all drivers, both when passing (ever driven in the UK for the first time and tried to pass?) and at toll booths. The muddy floors are worse with short-haul drives, since you're in and out more often. The tablets impact anybody driving at night. The only long-haul thing I really see here is the bed thing.

I don't think Tesla knew all of this. I think they just fucked it up.

The drivers won’t even be in these things soon.

In 2017, he said they all would come with "full self driving", standard, in 2019. You could tell it wouldn't, because his lips were moving.

The main problem with these things is that they can only move 5 tons if they have to go up a hill.

Yes, we know. FSD is coming and there will be a million of them driving autonomously next year.

For what these are designed for its pretty easy.

They'll be banned from driving after the smart cruise control veers into a cyclist.

<flippant> Maybe the designers were worried about UVA/UVB exposure for truckers. </flippant>

see https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trucker-accumulates-skin-damage...

> Most of the criticism assumes people will be in these cabs for 8 hours at a time

Somebody has never driven from Long Beach to the Inland Empire...

While I largely agree with you, there are at least a subset of the complaints in the Twitter thread that are pretty inconsequential if the truck is only intended for < 500 mile routes (for example, the "no space for a bed" complaint).

You think that drivers won't be asked to do 3 trips a day, or that the truck will never break down miles from anywhere?

Who cares if they do 3 trips a day, it's not like they won't need to stop and unload on each trip. Beds-in-cabs is really only a thing for long haul truckers. There are tons of vehicles used for trips of the length that the Tesla Semi is for that don't have beds, and nobody would expect they would.

> There are tons of vehicles used for trips of the length that the Tesla Semi is for that don't have beds, and nobody would expect they would.

Citation needed.

The driver sleeps in the truck in neither of those scenarios. The driver drives back and forth from the port until his shift is over, then another driver takes over. If the truck breaks down ... you're in the middle of Los Angeles. Someone from the company picks you up, and you drive another truck, or go home.

GP's (very reasonable) thesis is that these are for truck driving as a day-job, in fair-weather locales, which obviates most of the complaints.

Not even, though. GP mentions the NYC metro area. I wouldn't call that a "fair-weather locale" in the winter. All the snow-related complaints seem to apply here.

I mentioned 3 trips a day because you could wake up in Los Angeles, drive deep into the inland empire, drive back to Los Angeles, and then back into the inland empire again. This was the context mentioned by an earlier top-level comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33926883

You are quite right that running into problems in the Los Angeles is only a minor inconvenience. Having worked at both ends of this route, I regret to tell you that the other end is not the most welcoming environment. You probably wouldn't be out there too long if you did break down, but the desert gets pretty chilly at night.

People have day cabs now that they cant sleep in... So what's your point? This is a day cab.

What if it is relevant and all the criticisms are true?

It’s a big world - a company targeting a very specific narrow niche in a specific location sounds like a great strategy for getting started. And it wouldn’t invalidate the euro truck driver insights on what would work for Europe’s logistics reality.

> It has the potential to dramatically reduce costs for some routes/corridors.

This alone is extremely relevant.

What on earth are you talking about? What has that got to do with the criticisms in the post? If they were taken into consideration, how would that in any way affect their cost savings?

The central seating position issues become less relevant for this use case.

Except the driver (user) is not the buyer.

See also - medical health record systems.

The driver is the buyer for at least half the trucks in the US.

all the criticism is from the point of view of a european trucker dealing with weather. The only weather those trucks will be dealing with is hot and hotter, and the cab shape and size is normal for US trucks.

That tweet stream is mostly an uninformed nothing burger and this comment comes from someone that HATES Elon Musk.

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