Hacker News Reader

Comment by PaulDavisThe1st | Hacker News Reader

I am always puzzled (yet not puzzled) that someone would frame what this piece seems to be about in terms of their own personal theology. Everything in this beautifully written piece rings true to me, and yet somehow the connection to Christianity, either as a source of that truth or as an expression of it, feels forced.

You don't need to be a Christian to have had the author's experiences and desires, and you don't need to be a Christian to share an understanding of "the way forward".

I remain puzzled about what precisely the author believes Christianity itself brings to the questions and life situations she is writing about, above and beyond what the simple act of being a self-aware human can.

View on HN

> I remain puzzled about what precisely the author believes Christianity itself brings to the questions and life situations she is writing about, above and beyond what the simple act of being a self-aware human can.

I interpreted this essay as largely about the bonds that form within a tightly knit community, as well as how this larger community can support, enrich, and - ultimately - outlast the individual members.

For the author of this article, this social fabric happens to be constructed out of a shared religious faith, and I think this faith is essential to her essay.

I (an avowed atheist) would suggest that the secular world has failed to present reasonable alternatives to this (positive) aspect of such communities. I could never share the religious beliefs that these people have, but I remain ever envious of their sense of kinship which transcends both blood lines and geography.

Thank you for stating this. I share your envy.

In my own life I find myself sharing articles with many contacts in my phone. Sometimes 10-15 people at a time. I don’t know if this acts as a means to create a facsimile of the community the author alludes. If my sharing articles is a thrust towards crafting community, it is a paltry comparison to the type you and I envy.

I’m going to have to think on this. Thank you

I fail to see how the secular world has failed to present a reasonable alternative. For several reasons.

One, it isn't like Christianity is the dominant religious option on the planet. It has a particular dominance in much of "the west," but it is quite new on the planet and is not a clear example of just having a positive impact.

Specifically, as much as it can be seen as giving a positive aspect of successful communities, the tension between it and other religious offerings really throws that idea a huge curve ball. This is completely ignoring a lot of the "forced" re-educations and conversions that have happened to get where we are.

To directly state what the secular world has offered, separating government from religion is a big one. It is very sad to see the steps getting lost in that direction.

Their frame, their world view is based or heavily influenced by their faith, which drives their decisions, comments, dispositions, and this article of self-expression.

It reads like you are stating that their personal, self-expression does not require their own world view, therefore it should have been left out.

Do I read your note correctly?

If so, I disagree. Yes, the whole article could have been written in a few paragraphs. In my opinion, it would have been dull, lack nuance, and failed to color-in the emotions she felt.

I grew up under the thumb of Christianity; the form that only thinly veils their contempt for most of the world, and disguises hate as piety. I mention this because it absolutely colors my view of that community, and I want to acknowledge that up front.

With that said, what always struck me as odd is that Christians seem to believe Christianity is the source of their desire (and all desire) to do good. The source of morality, good will, selflessness, personal sacrifice, etc.

When I escaped from the bubble, the first thing that hit me like a train was that I saw all of these qualities - often in an even purer form - in people from all walks of life, including many atheists.

Over time, I came to realize/believe that these qualities are deep within humanity, and probably have a large impact on why humanity has progressed in a way that is unlike any other species alive today.

Religions are implementations of these underlying traits, not their source. It is for this reason that many religions share so many commonalities. They are invented by man, and stem from the same underlying realizations that many thinkers have had throughout history, spanning civilizations and geographies. And as man made concepts, they are just as susceptible to corruption and misuse as any organization.

With this framing in mind, I try to interpret the world views of religious folks much like I would a developer who centers their life around a particular language or development stack. There's often a lot of truth in what they believe, even if that truth is not unique to the particular implementation they chose.

The difference is that devs generally acknowledge that their path of choice is just a preference and not some absolute truth. Choosing Python over Ruby isn't going to send a person to hell, although you'll still find those "this is the only way" tendencies from the most devout.

I think I agree with the OP. I'm happy for folks that find comfort in the company they decide to keep. I am always confused by the idea that this is somehow the religion a person chooses that is the deciding factor.

Take the first callout, "I have always believed that one of the great arguments for being part of a collectivist Christian tradition is their willingness to do voluntary, gruelling manual labour and call it love." What about that actually requires the "Christian" part? And the odd implication that other collectivist traditions would not find a path to volunteering is... a little chilling to me.

I didn't want it to be shorter. I just think she could have explored all the same themes and told all the same anecdotes without any of them explicitly being connected to Christianity.

Except, perhaps, for the willingness of communitarian anabaptists to do hard work as a group, but even then, how much of that relates to their Christian faith and how much to their communitarian outlook (something they share with non-Christian groups).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com