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Comment by lapcat | Hacker News Reader

> Apple has fired executives for far less (like Scott Forstall).

Maps was a cover story. Forstall was fired because he was Tim Cook's only serious rival for power post-Jobs, and also because some other execs (such as Jony Ive) didn't like him. When Steve Jobs died, Forstall lost his only protector in the company.

Spinning up a maps service from scratch to match Google Maps was a monumental task, nearly impossible to do quickly and well. Apple Maps continued to suck for years after Forstall was fired. Not to mention that Siri continues to suck today. Forstall wasn't fired for incompetence. He was a proven executive who was in charge of developing iOS!

In contrast, Hair Force One has overseen a massive downgrade in Apple software design and quality. But he gets along well with the other execs, doesn't rock any boats.

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Can you expand on last para? Who are you referring to as Hair Force One?

I’m guessing he’s referring to Craig Federighi.

>Maps was a cover story. Forstall was fired because he was Tim Cook's only serious rival for power post-Jobs, and also because some other execs (such as Jony Ive) didn't like him. When Steve Jobs died, Forstall lost his only protector in the company.

This sounds just like The Death of Stalin story.

> This sounds just like The Death of Stalin story.

Funny, I've always likened Tim Cook to Stalin, with Steve Jobs as Lenin, and Forstall Trotsky.

this is not how they are in person, or were. Forstall oversaw a conniving political maneuver nuisance crossing division boundaries and causing serious infighting that was resolved by reorg when he left. Cook and Jobs (having interacted with both) just were positivity-obsessed guys averse to that noise, and I think without evidence perhaps Forstall got intolerable when his old protector had passed.

also, no one is mentioning the behind the scenes participants with far longer engineering creds than Forstall, because it's just pop-culturally easy to simplify the little era into salacious snippets not aligned with reality.

> Forstall oversaw a conniving political maneuver nuisance crossing division boundaries and causing serious infighting that was resolved by reorg when he left.

That's in line with what I said.

> Jobs (having interacted with both) just were positivity-obsessed guys averse to that noise

That's not the Steve Jobs I remember. ;-) Anyway, you don't explain why Jobs protected Forstall in the first place. My understanding is that Jobs encouraged some internal arguing and conflict, whereas Cook discourages it.

> no one is mentioning the behind the scenes participants with far longer engineering creds than Forstall

Mention them in what context? I mean, the Lenin/Stalin thing is just a silly metaphor. The serious point is that Forstall, mentioned by the OP, didn't get fired for incompetence, and Maps was just as excuse, a point that you seem to agree with. But if you're aware of people with longer engineering creds than Forstall who did get fired for incompetence, then I'd be interested to hear about it.

I mean we never see mention in bandwagon discussions what Mansfield influenced, Federhigi, Riccio, etc.

I think you’re right that even Jobs himself gave interviews about having useful internal conflict or at least competition.

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