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Comment by 411111111111111 | Hacker News Reader

I just wish there was a way to buy meat from animals that hadn’t been systematically tortured for their short life until they were drowned in co2 for easy butchering… the only reason why I try to use as much vegetarian replacement products is because I have moral qualms eating meat from sentient creatures that have been so brutally abused…

And even diary is hard to consume after seeing cows from a bio farm getting herded for milking. They’re in serious pain while getting continuously impregnated to maximise milk production… it’s really hard to stomach for me as I’m not morally opposed to milk/meat consumption… but the way these creatures are treated really make it hard.

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I think there are some operations that are trying to do this well. Granted, I'm probably pretty susceptible to their marketing efforts, but I find White Oak Pastures Farm in GA a really exciting example of an establishment that is pushing back against industrial farming practices. https://whiteoakpastures.com/

The prices reflect this, of course, and I think the economics of more people adjusting their household budgets to eat in an affordable but also environmentally-sustainable way is really pivotal to seeing major change on this front in the future. They also claim to be carbon negative which is really interesting: https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grass.... https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/hubfs/WOP-LCA-Quantis-2019....

There are lots of great ranchers and butchers out there who raise their livestock humanely. You’ll probably want a big deep freezer but search for a “half beef” or “whole cow” sales and you’ll likely find a ranch near you that can give you ethical meat, and probably at a better price since you’re buying in bulk. (Many ranches will do smaller steak/burger sales too)

The cool thing is that a lot of these operations partner with butchers who can cut to order, so you get exactly the thickness of steaks you like, certain roasts, Korean-style ribs if you want them, soup bones, shanks, etc. all exactly how you like them.

Grass-fed beef is a superfood!

I don't think it's possible to buy any kind of food that has been treated in a way you can feel morally comfortable with at the majority of traditional grocery stores. Whether it's chocolate being created from cocoa beans farmed with slave labor in other countries, apples getting picked by undocumented workers making less than minimum wage on farms, or frozen foods getting packaged at factories with questionable working conditions. Unless you straight up build your own garden and farm off the grid and do everything yourself your only option is to either feel morally queezy 24/7 or live your best life and maybe donate a couple hundred each month to organizations like The Humane Society that work to improve conditions for you.

I think you hit it on the head with "the majority of traditional grocery stores." For me those just aren't the place to shop for animal products like meat and dairy. Hit the specialty places for that, pay the premium, and eat less of it. Maybe this one study debunks all the rest of the data out there about red meat, maybe not, but it's a healthy lifestyle that works for me; I only pay to eat meat once or twice a month as a result.

There's one other source of good meat: hunting. I suck at that but I have friends and associates who hunt and they are often trying to get rid of extra meat. Always happy to help with that :)

How about I isolate the red meat and dairy products I purchase to local farmers markets once a week and we'll call it even?

Shop from local farms, if that's an option for you. All suffering won't be eliminated, of course, but if you want to consume animal products, it's way better IMO to support local farmers who are invested in ethical animal treatment and sustainable practices.

There untortured grass-fed meat delivery companies out there for example, ButcherBox. Their site is glitchy, but the products are good, I've had them for a while, and now trying some other ones. There are many choices with good delivery now.

> I just wish there was a way to buy meat from animals that hadn’t been systematically tortured for their short life

A good portion of the meat I consume comes off my own land, mostly as venison although a little bit of turkey too. It tastes better than farmed meat, it's cheaper, it helps keep the animals from overpopulating, and the animal didn't live a miserable life of torture before it was harvested.

But I get that not everybody lives in an area where that is practical.

You can buy direct from farmer who treats the animals well, either individually or with a group of friends and family. You just have to have the freezer space.

Exactly. And animals that are treated well start out at 3x the price, and when the tortured animal meat prices are already breaking the bank for most people.

Do you have a 4H program in your area? Those animals are treated like pets. I buy a quarter cow once a year. Higher quality and cheaper than the Grocer.

Luckily my neighbor raises free-range animals. So my family has that in the freezer.

But short of moving to the midwest and making friends with your neighboring farmers, I don't know what to tell you.

You can buy boar and moose from hunters.

Buy from a smaller local farm. The meat is higher quality anyway

Well, CO2 asphyxiation is so far the most humane approach to butchering.

I remember a YouTube of a journalist looking for the most humane technique to administer capital punishment and it turned out that during co2 asphyxia the victim goes light-headed, even laughingly before passing out and away without even realizing. When told about this, Death Sentence advocates were disappointed that the victims wouldn't suffer while the sentence was carried out. (surprising eh!)

CO2 asphyxiation is not kind. The effect of elevated CO2 blood levels is to make you panic that you are suffocating; you struggle for breath. Nitrogen gas is much kinder; you don't know that you are suffocating, you just pass out. (So be extra-vigilant around tanks of N2).

Nitrogen asphyxiation is even better, and atmospheric nitrogen is extremely abundant and super cheap.

not sure what your definition of humane is but mine certainly isnt this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hAELEBjX4

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