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Comment by p0pcult | Hacker News Reader

A recent tiktok trend hitting my city and others seems to be calling in/airdropping/swatting/posting active shooter threats at local schools. So far, this has shut down my kid's school several times this year.

TikTok gets to be the vector for this new scale of virality, America loses future economic competitiveness. Who is the winner in this scenario?

https://www.spieltimes.com/news/what-is-tiktoks-active-shoot... https://www.thedailybeast.com/tiktok-shooting-challenge-seen... https://wpde.com/news/local/rcsd-at-blythewood-high-school-a...

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What's the connection to China?

Is there a belief that China was slower at removing these videos that an American firm would be? Because that's the substantive question.

The Chinese government owns tiktok. The algorithm that decides what videos americans will consume is signed off on by the Chinese government.

That is an enormous national security threat.

> The Chinese government owns tiktok

Only figuratively in the hacker/gamer sense. TikTok is owned by ByteSense.

The "TikTok can be used to spy on americans" is much like "Russians interfered in our elections". Both are true, both are legitimately very concerning, but both are also things that the USA has been doing for decades with minimal domestic outcry.

So implicit in our attempts to reign in other countries behavior is that other countries should be attempting to reign in ours. If these are behaviors we think the world would be better off without, the best place to reign in that behavior is by starting with our own government.

As has been stated voluminously elsewhere in this comment section, and better by others than my attempt here: we have a (quasi-?)democratic apparatus and constitutional framework that governs our country's use of this power.

Does China or Russia allow for those kinds of tools for holding government accountable? Not as far as I can tell.

Therein lies a massive difference in kind.

>Only figuratively in the hacker/gamer sense. TikTok is owned by ByteSense.

No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does. When you are a business in China, you defacto work for the government.

China isn't America with a red flag, it's a fundamentally different system. Too many people think they know China because they understand America.

If Biden wants instagram showing people pictures of ponies, it simply isn't going to happen. If Xi wants tiktok to show people ponies, the next day every kid in america will be looking at ponies.

> No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does. When you are a business in China, you defacto work for the government.

Would you say the same thing if they employed CIA and NSA people in executive positions, and had ex-generals and ex-spooks on the board?

No. A CIA agent might have ulterior motives being on a board, but they are just another board member (I also doubt many board members are secretly CIA).

Every company in China however answers directly to the part, and every board has a party member on it, who holds 100% of the voting power.

There really isn't a comparison to be made.

> No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors,

The board of directors of a company are not generally owners.

> and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does

Which is why it's figuratively true in the "pwn" sense, but not literally true.

Wording matters, and so does getting the facts right.

No, it is literally true that every company has a party member they must answer too. Whether its a board member or a local party representative.

There is no business autonomy with a court to settle differences. The party wants it, the party gets it. Full Stop.

>The board of directors of a company are not generally owners.

Like I said, China is not America. On Chinese Boards sits a party member who has absolute control. China doesn't care what function American boards typically serve.

> No, it is literally true that every company has a party member they must answer too. Whether its a board member or a local party representative.

Which still doesn't make it literally true that: "The Chinese government owns tiktok", (unless, in addition to using "own" figuratively you are also using "literal" in the now common sense that actually means "figurative").

We're not talking about America. Chinese companies are defacto arms of the chinese government. It's a communist country. Any sense of private ownership is just a sense, it doesn't really exist.

I don't know how many times we have to go in this circle until we get through that dense skull. If you think you understand Chinese business because you understand western business - you don't.

Well, aside from:

The opacity of the algorithm, plus the degree to which the content is auto-curated;

the asymmetrical content optimization in exported and domestic versions;

the time-limits imposed on domestic, but not international youth users;

the government-business-CCP nexus in china, partial government ownership of TT, and the human rights record of the CCP;

the refusal to allow western social media and news into China;

I dunno, not much?

The main connection I believe is exploiting xenophobia with he goal of internet gatekeeping. There are always those wary of outside influences destroying local culture.

Still, even if they are the best at removing videos, they are also the best at breeding new issues which go viral before they are even recognized as a threat and siloing that content so only people vulnerable are exposed. A second possibility is that they may be creating a forum of disruptive content on purpose to keep people distracted with local issues. Additionally there are foreign agents, trolls acting from patriotic intent or even those who are paid, seeking to encourage problem activity or create anti-government movements.

Interesting point, but if the goal is a balkanized internet, and the means is exploiting xenophobia, doesn't that implicity prove that China is adept enough at using TikTok to stoke racial animus to justify the shutting down of TikTok?

that's interesting. Reminds me of other social media sites where there used to be bomb threats and such. TikTok is clearly kind of the wild west of the internet right now. It still has human moderation which people deliberately game and so far the leadership has evaded public scrutiny.

I have seen other destructive trends happen on TikTok too. I don't know if it is good the things people do to get more followers. The minimum age is 13. It seems like TikTok has a lot of unmoderated content, dangerous trends, and the path to gaining a lot of followers, seems morally grey too.

I can see how TikTok can shape society. Look at how college athletes can earn money on it and promote themselves. Imagine if universities began to recruit athletes with higher TikTok earnings potential and then modify the sport to appeal to that market more. Yes, I am being vague deliberately. It's probably worth asking what effects TikTok has on people.

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