Comment by Periodic | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Periodic | Hacker News Reader

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This really happened to me in the last month. I was contracted with a company that has a contract to build a company for a bigger client with customers.

PM: We need you to fix a bug. One of our client's customers couldn't complete the form. Me: What error did they get? PM: I don't know, but it's very important we fix this. Me: Do we have steps to reproduce it? PM: No, can't you just fix it? Me: Did they retry the submission process? PM: I don't know. Me: Does it happen often? PM: Just this one customer as far as we know. Me: Well, do we at least know when it happened so I can find it in the logs? PM: Sometime last week. Look, this is really important to the client, can you just make this top priority? We want it fixed ASAP.

The "bug" has not been fixed because the devs still don't even know what the error is. We had another high-priority bug shortly before this because the client didn't understand that something wasn't allowed according to the access rules in the spec they (theoretically) helped write.

Me: I bet you're pretty good with smartphones.

PM: I guess so.

Me holds out phone

Me: Can you fix mine?

PM: I can try, what's wrong with it?

I had a client once who did this to me all the time. Drove me nuts.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm skeptical about stories like this. I can't even fathom any scenario in which someone more intelligent than a cucumber could behave in this manner. How does this PM manage to get and maintain any job at all, let alone one that requires the ability to understand software development process and constraints?

I once thought as you do that this story or the hundreds of others like it were just exaggerations or failed comic sketch scripts. I once couldn't even comprehend where the humor came from in Dilbert.

Then I worked in government, health care, and big business as an employee and a contractor which allowed me to the great opportunity to meet these very people. This type of behavior is particularly common in companies that like to see managers move around so they can get experience in many parts of the business. In many companies it is actually regarded as a plus to supervise technical people without understanding anything about the technical process or some failed programmer becomes a manager.

It wasn't a PM or anyone technical, but I can confirm that people of "cucumber" intelligence do, in fact, exist in management and that I have personally met them and been ready to tear my hear out during exchanges like:

"We had an error!" "What error?" "Who cares? Fix it!"

In an unrelated note, I think I'm going to start calling such useless reports cucumbers.

Just once, I'd like to respond to that with, "OK, give me the bug number and I'll fix it right now by marking it resolved."

I've lived through many bug reports like this, mostly from very non-technical PM's who think that their power is derived from being the single point of communication between the client and the developers. Its a sad and bizarre game of telephone.

It is the bosses who don't understand things but just want things get done. Consider their role as the pressure amplifier. They just increase the pressure, I meant priority, of the problem when the clients scream. They drive the process. They don't solve problem.

How long have you worked in software and which companies have you worked at? I'm asking because these PMs tend to come from smaller companies whose main job isn't IT related. In a lot of these places, the "IT Director" is the CEO's friend or family member, and the IT department is simply a holding area to keep them out of trouble.

I've worked in software for roughly 14 years, and I've worked almost exclusively for startups during this time. I understand the concept of nepotism, so I get your point - I guess my question is not really "how do these people keep their jobs" so much as it is "how do these people even exist?" The notion that a conscious human being could behave in the manner described is unfathomable.

It's probably because you've been in startups all this time. Try working in manufacturing instead and you will no longer have trouble believing that these "cucumber" people walk among us... and work in management.

You would be surprised..

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