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Comment by rad_gruchalski | Hacker News Reader

He looked into opening a GmbH, not the other way around. He wants to do business in Germany.

You can absolutely go through this process without speaking German but it will cost you money in lawyers.

> I think his point is, English is the lingua-franca of the internet and international business.

Maybe the Internet, yes. But international business? I don’t think so. Maybe from a perspective of native English-speaking person it appears to him like that. But it’s not the case in many non-English speaking countries.

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> Maybe the Internet, yes. But international business? I don’t think so. Maybe from a perspective of native English-speaking person it appears to him like that. But it’s not the case in any non-English speaking country.

When a Swedish company does business with a Portuguese company, they speak English. Other languages are used for domestic business. International business is done in English. There are exceptions to the rule like the Francophonie, but let's not be pedantic. You may learn some phrases of the other party's language as a gesture of goodwill and politeness (and honestly it's kinda fun use of company time), but the actual important talks take place in English.

> When a Swedish company does business with a Portuguese company, they speak English.

Correct, and they both feel less entitled about the other part not speaking their language as English native speakers do

> and they both feel less entitled about the other part not speaking their language as English native speakers do

Have a couple of stories about this. Yes, some people think that you should know their language when they just speak theirs. I do not find it too polite, honestly. Especially a couple of times I saw things that even once made me jump in and say: "how many languages do you speak?" He was abroad, you know, in Asia. And I had to reply: "what makes you think everyone should speak english? You are not even in an english speaking country".

It is not nice to see people behave like that. I think it made the locals feel insulted, not bc he cannot speak the local language. It was because of the attitude of demanding the others to talk to him in english. English is the most used second language. But noone said each of us must learn it.

Just my two cents.

We might speak English but you will be signing everything in Portuguese.

And depending on the education we also speak Spanish, French, German and Italian, as the main learning paths in high school available to chose from.

But again, legal documents, Portuguese.

Why would a contract for an international deal not be in English?

Because legally, the contract has to be in the jurisdiction's official language

That’s not true - you can have a contract in any language in Germany. But the first thing that a court adjucating any dispute would do is have a certified translator translate it into German - at your cost. And that translation will be out of your control. So it makes sense to have a German contract, so at least you know what the contract says going to court.

correct - all our actual investment documents are in English.

Plus, if during the certification of the translation it comes up that the document does not comply with the legal requirements, it may lead to a contract invalidation. It can be really expensive depending on the matter of the dispute.

You can choose both the law and forum in many types of commercial agreements. Typically international contracts will choose English law as the governing law.

If your company has a legal representation in the English speaking country, sure, go for it.

Obviously not true for many countries. In Sweden we often use English even for domestic contracts. I've seen employment agreements in English between a Swedish company and a Swedish employee.

Because a dispute needs to be heard in a court, at which point precedent and/or statute need to be considered, and if the contract is in a different language to either of those two then interpreting all of them together becomes impossible.

Presumably because the contracting parties want the contract to be interpreted and enforced by the courts of a country in which they both do business.

It's not unusual, I think, for big international companies that already have assets and legal advisers in the UK to specify English law and English courts for a contract, but if a small Greek and a small Italian company were to have a contract in English, it would, I imagine, just make a legal dispute much more dififcult and expensive to resolve (whether or not the contract specifies English law and English courts: different problems in each case).

> And depending on the education we also speak Spanish, French, German and Italian, as the main learning paths in high school available to chose from.

Come on now, how many people had any of these languages in high school speak it at a conversational level let alone for business. The vast majority of people i met who learned a foreign language in school (other than English) cant speak it.

Many do.

Myself I speak fluently six languages.

I am not sure in what circles you move, but the idea that "many" speak 4 or more languages is... not quit common.

The issue is probably what you personally consider fluently / be able to speak.

On average most educated continental Europeans speak three languages, their own, English and another European language, or local dialect.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

I specifically went to a European language focused school where learning a lot of languages was a thing people did (it was also classified as such as by the government). Six languages was the most anyone ever spoke, and that was a dude who spoke English, German and Chinese natively (lucky bastard). Even people who were good with languages did not go above 4 usually.

IMO you're misrepresenting to a huge degree the actual part of the population that is able to learn this many languages. Most young people in Europe can speak a native language and a second language, with a bit of a 3rd language thrown in. And that's only counting the richer part, many do not learn past a 2nd language if that.

BTW I count speak fluently == could have a dialogue with a native person about a random topic and be understood. Being able to ask for directions or talk about the food is not fluency, I can do that without language at all.

Yes, I specifically said myself, not everyone. I have worked professionally in all of them, when I said fluently I meant it.

The average as per EU statistics is three languages.

The person's country main language, english, local dialects or additional national languages in countries like Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and so forth.

Or in the case of European expats, the language of the country they happen to work on.

Sweden went through a massive cultural swing towards English/US culture in the later 90s and then at full speed through the later decades. English was initial an alternative language that Swedes could optionally pick at the age of 15-18 (a choice between German, french and English). Then it became a graduation requirement for all students at that age group (with German and french being delegated to a third optional choice), and then English moved down the age groups and now Swedish children learn it beginning as early as age 8-9. English has become a second required language in Sweden throughout the education system.

> But international business? I don’t think so.

Pray tell what the language of international business is in the EU.

Between which countries?

Poland and Estonia.

Okay, and what about Poland and Germany? Or Germany and France? Or Belgium and The Netherlands? Or Germany and Italy? Can you with 100% confidence tell that all companies in all cases between those countries do business in English? What about a Belgian company from Wallonia and a French partner? Or Luxemburg and Wallonia?

> Can you with 100% confidence tell that all companies in all cases between those countries do business in English?

No, but in every one of those cases English is the way to bet.

> What about a Belgian company from Wallonia and a French partner? Or Luxemburg and Wallonia?

Almost certainly French because it’s the working language of both companies. If people share a native language they’ll use that. Otherwise the default is English. It’s not certain that they’ll use English but Siemens doesn’t expect its international partners to have German speaking partners for dealing with it; it does expect its executives to speak English.

Just as science has a lingua franca so does business. It is English.

The only English speaking country in the EU is Ireland. Many people in France, Italy or Spain do not speak English, at least not beyond elementary school level. It's even worse in countries such as Greece, Romania or Poland. It's hard to do business that way. So we use a lot of Google translate, but contracts are always in the native language.

Minor nitpick, but over 90% of the Dutch population can read/write/speak English. It's compulsory education.

And also basic levels of German and French. Outside of tech I actually hear from multiple sources German is an important language for trade between medium-sided companies, to Germany of course but also a large portion of the other eastern EU members.

Malta also has English as an official language.

This is all true but as an American (I grew up speaking a different not European language), Europeans' ability to switch languages is interesting/fun.

Once I had a business meeting in Switzerland. It was all in English (for me, the American), but at one point they were speaking German to each other. And later in the hallway, they switched to speaking French with the lawyer who was there with me. And at lunch in the restaurant attached to the office, the Swiss German host ordered his food in Italian.

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