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Comment by jacobsenscott | Hacker News Reader

The world runs on certain types of software. I doesn't run on social media, or video streaming, or "AI/ML", or search. So it doesn't actually run on FAANG companies. It is no surprise they are shedding workers when the free money runs out. But if you are willing to work on "boring software" that provides actual economic value - logistics, HR/Payroll, or really anything people actually pay to use because it boosts their productivity - I wouldn't worry too much.

This was true during the .com bust, 2008 dip, and it will be true now.

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Facebook (and Google Search) are the most widely used software on Earth, ~3-4B MAUs each. I don't know what else something needs to do to qualify for "world runs on [it]".

What are those 3B people doing? Spreading conspiracy theories, looking at cat pics, and searching for porn. Whenever someone is on FB or google they are less productive, not more. Sure, a small fraction of those people are using FB or google for "work", but their work is usually just finding ways to get more people to waste more time on google or FB, or some other nonproductive activity people get paid for.

There's way, way more software that exists. All that boring enterprise Java and Spring stuff HN loves to ridicule represents the dark matter of the software engineering universe. There's tons of money in it and armies of developers working away without the praise or adulation of their Bay Area betters, but they're making good money and putting food on the table.

There is a big difference between something that is highly used, and something that is highly valuable.

both are highly valuable - to every business that advertises on them, and to users who find information (Google) or connection (Facebook) via those platforms.

Facebook disappearing tomorrow would cause a bit of a kerfuffle but life would go on.

Same for Google search.

But if VISA disappeared, there'd be hell to pay.

In reality none of these companies will disappear overnight, but they could get remaindered pretty quickly, because they're not that "important" per se.

That's not to say the companies don't do things and people don't find value, but Facebook disappearing is an entire different class of thing from Exxon-Mobil shuttering.

You are grossly underestimating how many business rely on Google and Facebook.

A small example: a ton of delivery companies depend on Google maps API for localization and route planning - think Doordash, Uber, etc. Not just that, lots of transit agencies and freight companies use Google API for planning and optimization. Half of the work force probably can't reach their destination without Google maps.

I'm pretty sure many critical components of Exxon-Mobil depend on some tools provided by Google.

That's why he specified "Google search" and not "Google"

>But if VISA disappeared, there'd be hell to pay.

Would it, though?

I'll just get a mastercard. 5$, a trip to the bank, ezpz. Or pay for stuff via Revolut. Or cash.

There'd be a bit of chaos, for like 2 weeks. Invoices will still get paid, ATMs would still work.

It'd probably be more straightforward than that. Your bank would switch over their cards to Mastercard, and send you a new one in the mail. I don't even think it's inconceivable that the Mastercard card # range is salvaged and you can retain the same card number.

To regular users, yeah, the impact would be tough but materially trivial (maybe?). But to the small businesses for which FB, Instagram, and Google advertising are their primary sources of customers? Devastating.

If a small business's primary source of customers is advertising, they're already dead (or something very niche, like a funeral home).

Primary source of new customers, maybe, but a small business should be built around acquiring customers and keeping them for a longtime.

I really don't see the unique value of Facebook on that level, other that keep certain people off other social media platforms.

> So it doesn't actually run on FAANG companies

Disagree, a lot of businesses do use GSuite and also a lot of people in the world do definitely use youtube/gmail/gmaps. Samething with apple, people will still use iPhones and a lot of people in the first world at least will still use macs. Only companies your comments apply to are Facebook and Netflix, and even then Whatsapp is basically an essential app to have if you're not form North America

I would certainly make a case the the world runs on the two As and the G of FAANG. The world runs a fair amount on Amazon deliveries and aws. The world runs a fair amount on gmail and google searches. And the world runs on a fair amount of Apple products.

Nobody watches digital video or searches for stuff online, so you should focus on payroll software? Is this career advice from a 1992 time warp?

OP is sour-grapes, saying the world doesn't run on search is an unbelievable statement in 2022.

Sure, FAANG may make a lot of frivolous stuff (Metaverse, anyone?) but also a lot of boring software that the world really does run on now days. Google especially.

Sure - as does amazon and apple - I doubt you'll see layoffs in those specific departments at those companies. I suppose I shouldn't have said FAANG as most of them have some core business that makes sense, Meta being the exception.

Maybe not in the US, but WhatsApp is pretty important messaging infrastructure in big chunks of the world

I would say that any software that has 4 billion MAU quite reasonably can be classified as "the world runs on it"-tier software.

If I had to guess, what I think you're doing is you're letting your opinion about the morality of FAANG-like software (ads, tracking, mal-influencing, etc.) be a judge on it's utility.

FAANG-like software is like fossil fuels. Fossil fuels, like much of FAANG-software, have many immoral aspects, yet they have utility to the point of "the world runs on it".

Google, DDG etc. connected the internet. Facebook, twitter etc. connected people on the internet. I'de say that's something of a big deal.

The world doesn't run on "AI/ML" or search? You must inhabit a different world than me. Do you run to the library every time you can't find some information?

An inverted index is not AI/ML.

No, but do that partially 100,000 times with weights overfitted to a sample dataset and you are :^)

Of course not, but 99.999% of all searches are frivolous.

I don’t agree at all. These companies are all super important and provide valuable services. If they vanish suddenly tomorrow that hole will be felt by every single human one way or the other. You are going back to 1970s for your comparison but that is not where we are

I'll grant you that for the AAG part of FAANG, but I can't think of a single useful product from FB. If FB itself vanished overnight people would just go back to sharing their cat pictures with family over sms (as they are doing anyway), and all the dusty unused Occulus headsets in drawers would stop receiving updates. Otherwise....

I don’t agree. As much as I don’t like FB, I have to admit that they provided a lot of value. People found joy in their products. Facebook before it became this cesspool attracted tons of people. WhatsApp is still hugely popular and useful. Instagram made countless people lots of money and create new means of livelihood.

If your bar for "important company" is "no competitive alternative or reasonable substitute exists for this one companies product", I'd struggle to think of a single "important company" in the entire world.

Many small businesses use their FB page exclusively because they aren't big enough to bother with a real website. There will be a lot of pain for many small employers and their employees if FB software were to go away.

I can't think of a single useful product from Amazon, Apple and currently Netflix. But I use stuff by Google and Meta daily.

I would argue search is highly valuable.

Also I expect video streaming (of some format, whether it's "traditional living room content" like Netflix/Disney or mobile-first like Youtube or TikTok) to maintain its entertainment dominance during a recession. People like their cheap escapes from the real world. It's been shown time and again that during recessions cheap entertainment like cinema (or these days, video streaming) doesn't die off.

> The world runs on certain types of software. I doesn't run on social media, or video streaming, or "AI/ML", or search. So it doesn't actually run on FAANG companies.

To the extent that the world runs on energy and industrials, you're right.

To the extent that tech soaks up human attention, directs spending and emotions, and now serves as the basis for communication and once manual mental tasks, I think you're wrong.

We're seeing that this is cyclical and that access to cheap debt has perturbed the sentiment.

Plenty of businesses have Facebook or another Facebook property (i.e. IG) as one of or the only way to get in touch with them. Plenty of individuals use Whatsapp or Facebook as their primary contact database and messaging platform.

The "post news articles on a feed" is probably not essential to too many people, but the messaging and communication features are in a lot of cases.

>It is no surprise they are shedding workers when the free money runs out.

Free money hasn't run out, it's simply stopped growing as quickly. Then again it grew massively during COVID so FAANG is still ahead of where they'd have been if not for COVID. Meta revenue is DOUBLE what it was 3 years ago.

It absolutely has. 8 months ago the Fed Funds rate was effectively 0% and now it's 4% and headed higher. That may not mean anything to you, but it means everything to VCs, banks, investors, and the market overall.

> provides actual economic value

> HR

tens of thousands if not millions of small, single proprietor or only slightly larger businesses are run entirely through facebook. it's the only way to learn about them, their hours, or contact them, and often the only way to buy things from them online.

I mean, almost all of software does run on AWS / Google Cloud.

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