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> At least on paper, Apple does seem to be doing better on privacy. They are private by default

Except the fact that they get informed every time you run any software on your Mac, and they even used to send that over HTTP, in the clear (I'm hoping it's changed). The reported purpose is to check software signatures live, for security or something. I personally think code signing isn't of a huge benefit for the user, and there is no need for live checks (instead of cache or Certificate Revocation Lists) to be performed. The only reason i can think for Apple to implement it this way is to collect data on what you do with your device ostensibly for "security", but it might just be a negative way of looking at things.

>> you can turn off every privacy-centric feature in Windows.

I don't believe that's true for all telemetry data; there's an option between enhanced & core/basic or similar, but it cannot be disabled.

I use windows as my daily driver for both work and home and what kills me, and your argument IMO, is that forced updates turn on new features and old ones that I've disabled, and dark patterns put your typical user in a state where the only available option appears to be enabling the function. Cortana is a great example of this, if you accidently run it while disabled (how is that even possible?) you cannot exit, and the UI implies you need to continue, which gets you to enable it. You can't quit, only minimize to the tray, then the dialog pops up frequently. You need to end the process from the process explorer, which most users are not going to do.

I used to buy all windows computers directly from the Microsoft store because they were optimized to run windows as well as possible, so had no bloatware or add-on garbage. now Windows itself includes all these features and add-ons, which seems so short-sighted.

It's not short-sighted IMO. Most people don't care about privacy, and an even smaller amount care enough to switch to and learn to use Unix.

Moreover, Microsoft and Apple can do essentially anything they want to. They have an unassailable stranglehold on the desktop OS market.

Nice, I had not see that option before. Another method that stops some phoning home and can remove some cruft is O&O's ShutUp10 freeware [1]. There are powershell scripts that do all the same things but this has a happy-clicky GUI that prompts the person to make a restore-point and displays which options are known to work, which may have limited efficacy and which are unlikely to work after updates. It will also show what has changed since the last time it was run. i.e. after OS updates

[1] - https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

For anyone interested in blocking or looking at what is happening through Windows, the "Restricted Traffic Limited Functionality Baseline" may be worth looking at.

It's a set of group policy settings that can be used to manage and prevent almost all of the "phoning home", and it documents what is done etc.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/privacy/manage-con...

It would be interesting to then do a private CA intercept (a la mitmproxy) on the resulting system to validate whether this correctly stops everything.

Most users are not going to know how to use group policy, and they intentionally obfuscate it on home editions basically telling you that you can't use it although there are some round about ways to install it. The only way to turn off these features in Windows is group policy and customizing your installation. If you wait to turn them off after installing Windows, then they've likely already collected and sent data.

> you can turn off every privacy-centric feature in Windows

Don't you need to buy the enterprise version to completely turn off telemetry?

you might be able to disable a few more things in pro version if you mess around with group policy

>That depends on whether you believe they are lying about those settings actually doing what they say they do.

My gut feeling is that they don't straight up lie, but that they for sure are leaving things out. Also putting good faith on microsoft is just something I'm not able to do no matter how much I try.

> At least on paper, Apple does seem to be doing better on privacy. They are private by default.

I believe Apple's true stance on this is, "we will protect your data from third parties, but in exchange, you have no privacy with us"