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Comment by Markoff | Hacker News Reader

Nobody cares about some 50cc category in EU, the definition according EU directive is about power wattage (250W) and speed (25kmh):

"cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h [15.5 mph], or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling"

Article doesn't mention electric engine power. Obviously if they would ditch pedals they have no chance.

And I'd say most of the EU countries require regular car license up to <125cc, but yeah, some have lower requirements for <50cc mopeds.

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This is not a pedal-assisted bicycle, it's a motorized bicycle. A pedal-assisted bicycle has to cut the motor power once you stop pedalling, whereas for this Honda the article states "it’s clear from the design that the pedals aren’t intended to be used constantly."

A motorized bicycle (L1e-A) is allowed to power the motor regardless of pedalling and can do up to a 1 kW of continuous power and 25 km/h. A two-wheeled moped (L1e-B) can do 4 kW of continuous power and 45 km/h.

You might want to review the EU driver licence classes then. Class AM "Two-wheel vehicles or three-wheel vehicles with a maximum design speed of not more than 45 kilometres per hour (28 mph) and with a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimetres (3.1 cu in). "

As I said this is electric bike, nothing to do with cylinders in EU, but power output of 250 W, so completely different category from what you mention and as I said regarding ICU motorbikes, you are fine with normal car license up to 125ccm and if you don't have car license then it's slightly easier maybe to get 50ccm license, but still nothing to do with ELECTRIC bike.

> regarding ICU motorbikes, you are fine with normal car license up to 125ccm

This sounds like class A1 vehicle (up to 125 cm3 for ICE, up to 11 kW engine power, up to 0.1 kW/kg engine power per mass of vehicle)

With my class B license (the usual normal car license most people have), the only two-wheel motor vehicles I'm allowed to operate are class AM mentioned by the parent comment above.

For operating class A1 you need a class A license.

Quoted from Wikipedia about B holders automatically able to drive also A1 without any additional training:

"B licence holders in Czech Republic (only motorcycles with automatic and semi-automatic transmission), Italy, Latvia, Slovakia (after two years and only motorcycles with automatic transmission), Spain (after three years), Poland (after three years), Portugal (at least 25 years old or additional licence for mopeds), and Belgium (after two years) are allowed to drive motorcycles not exceeding 125 cubic centimetres (7.6 cu in) within the respective countries."

So roguhly 1/3 of EU population is fine just with B license. In other countries you just need few hours of training.

In the UK you can also operate class A1 for up to two years on a provisional license as a 'learner driver' displaying 'L' plates upon completing compulsory basic training (CBT)

You can't 'fail' CBT and any motorcycle instructor / downtrained instructor can write you a certificate once you have completed the required steps and are deemed competent. This takes half a day to a day and has to include 2 hours of supervised riding on the road

Many people who don't want to ride bikes with more than 125cc never get their A license and just retake the CBT every 2 years. Most delivery drivers or parking wardens etc. I have seen do this too

Not sure if the EU is similar or not

No I think it fits perfectly AM, in Germany it is even called Motorfahrrad (MoFa, motorized bike). The pedals seem silly but I remember using them on step streets. Anyway just compare the specs here https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/StV/Roadtraffic/... "a maximum design speed of up to 45 km/h" "an electric motor or an internal combustion engine with a cubic capacity not exceeding 50 cc or a maximum continuous rated power of up to 4 kW in the case of electric motors"

And the specs mentioned in the artikle "...his brake layout again confirms that the bike is intended to fit the “50cc” moped category, with a top speed of 28 mph(~45 km/h) and no more than 4kW of power"

OK I read the news different way - it will be for sure more than 250W so you need license already anyway, so I've found pedals odd and thought they used them to avoid requiring any license.

And if they don't care about license then more than 1/3 of Europe (population) have A1 already with B license anyway, so why use pedals then, this seems like really odd niche for teenagers, since if you are adult you either have B license (and pretty good odds having A1 anyway, so you have much higher limits) and you can drive electric motorbike without pedals or don't have any license and you are not gonna make AM specifically to ride this moped, if they wanted to target the group without license they should add pedals (which they did) and weak 0.25kW electric engine (which, they won't), so this is really motorbike for teenagers, otherwise they should ditch pedals and can put there stronger engine if it's intended for adults.

In Poland you can ride 2/3-wheel AM vehicles (45km/h, commonly unlocked for more) without any license (just registration and insurance), if you were born before 1995. In Finland if born before 1985.

But AM vehicle category don't require pedals, so the pedals seem pointless.

>it will be for sure more than 250W so you need license already anyway

1 kWh motorized bicycles do not require a license or vehicle registration here. You just need liability insurance on your bike.

In Sweden (and I think most of EU?) we have 3 different kinds of electric two wheelers:

Bikes which you described with 25kph/250W limit

Class 2 moped: 25kph/1kW - traffic insurance, license

Class 1 moped: 45kph/4kW - traffic insurance, license plate, license

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