AMD? That company shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence as Intel. Intel’s profits are more than AMD’s entire revenue.
I get it if you just like the products, but there’s no comparison between the two as far as being companies.
I get it if you just like the products, but there’s no comparison between the two as far as being companies.
I may be long Intel, but this unqualified assertion without cite is certifiable bullshit at face value.
From the latest 10-Q filings for Intel[1] and AMD[2], this is what the numbers are saying for 2022 YTD:
(In millions) | INTC | AMD | Diff |
====================|=========|=========|=======|
Revenue | 49,012 | 18,002 | 36.7% |
Cost of sales | 27,646 | 9,802 | 35.5% |
--------------------|---------|---------|-------|
Gross margin | 21,366 | 8,200 | 38.4% |
Operating expenses | 17,900 | 6,787 | 37.9% |
--------------------|---------|---------|-------|
Operating income | 3,466 | 1,413 | 40.8% |
Net income | 8,678 | 1,299 | 15.0% |
--------------------|---------|---------|-------|
Adjusted net income | 3,580 | 1,299 | 36.3% |
- Intel's non-operating income (~80%/20% split between equity investments/interest and other) accounts for $5.098B and is 147% relative to operating income YTD! Adjusting this out of the picture tells a different story about pound-for-pound operations.
- Compared to AMD's $135M Q3 tax benefit, Intel recognized a massive $1.207B boon! Both companies swallowed operating losses this quarter (Intel -$175M v. AMD -$64M); without this tax benefit, YTD net income for both companies would have taken a hit. I keep this benefit in because Intel operates fabs, and much of that benefit was attributable to "a change in tax law from 2017 Tax Reform related to the capitalization of R&D expenses that went into effect in January 2022."
- Included in AMD's cost of sales and operating expenses are amortization of acquisition-related intangibles (Xilinx) to the tune of $1.005B and $1.499B, respectively. When this acquisition-related cost disappears, we can expect AMD's gross margins to substantially increase as you'd expect from a fabless design house.
Keeping it real.
[1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/50863/00000508632200...
[2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2488/000000248822000...
FY21 AMD revenue 16.4 billion dollars[0]
FY21 Intel profit 43.815 billion dollars[1]
[0]https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1044/am....
[1]https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1522/...
From Intel's latest Q3 press release[1], management is guiding towards $63-64B revenue to close FY22, representing -20% decline YoY.
In contrast, from AMD's latest Q3 press release[2], management is guiding towards $23.2-23.8B revenue to close FY22, representing +43% growth YoY.
Underneath the hood, Intel's two biggest segments by huge margin are going down faster than a whore spreading herpes:
- Client Computing segment revenue is down -17.0% QoQ, -18.5% YoY; segment operating income is down -53.9% QoQ, -53.3% YoY.
- Datacenter and AI segment revenue is down -27.2% QoQ, -16.3% YoY; segment operating income is down -99.3% QoQ, -68.5% YoY.
- This quarter, Intel spun off their Mobileye segment and is expected to hold ~94% of MBLY common stock upon IPO. For Q3, this segment's revenue was up +38.0% QoQ, +26.6% YoY; segment operating income was up +11.8% QoQ, +11.4% YoY...we won't be seeing this segment soften Intel's top line decline moving forward.
- Management has made it abundantly clear that they're trying to cauterize deep operating wounds now and over the next few years: "The company is focused on driving $3 billion in cost reductions in 2023, growing to $8 billion to $10 billion in annualized cost reductions and efficiency gains by the end of 2025."
- Next year, Intel will burn ~$5.4B acquiring Tower Semi to advance their IDM 2.0 vision[3]. Prevailing macroeconomic headwinds today and throughout at least the end of next year strongly suggests this will weigh a lot more unfavorably on Intel's balance sheet moving forward given the implied cost of capital went from cheap in February 2022 when the acquisition intent was announced to sky-fucking-high today trending to the moon based on what the futures market has already priced in.
[1] https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1586/...
[2] https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1098/am...
[3] https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1527/...
So I'm not sure what you mean? Can you show numbers that would support "eating one's lunch"?
Although you did say to ignore financials, so which makes the analogy meaningless.
All of the tech youtubers have been making similar points lately (LTT, GamersNexus, HardwareUnboxed).
Data centre does seem to be in AMD's favour at the moment, but I don't know enough about the space to know if their advantages will be long lived.
I know what you mean about the chips themselves, but that hasn’t translated into actual money for AMD yet.
A higher PE only makes sense if a business’s profit is poised to expand significantly beyond doubt. Which it almost never is.
If someone is selling a McDonalds that makes $1m a year for $5m and somebody else selling one with the same revenue for $1m either one of the seller is behaving irrationally or the second seller knows something you don't. Why would somebody give you free money otherwise?
Who you consider best is very different if you are a gamer that wants 120 fps, or an investor that wants $$$.
But you can't you speak for all consumers and people on this site: I could care less about performance because even bottom end CPUs are enough for my needs. In fact, as a stockholder, Intel matters more.
I'm old enough to remember when AMD was an actual threat to Intel in the PC space but had inferior performance compared to Intel, but AMD was far cheaper and getting design wins (for a brief period in the 1990's before Intel's mega-deal with Dell and anti-competitive wrangling).
I don't have a horse in this race, I just enjoy seeing factions fight over "who's best", and how the arguments change over time.
EDIT: phrasing.
If you want to talk performance, here's gaming performance of Ryzen 7000 vs Intel 13th gen.[0] Needless to say, I don't see where AMD crushes Intel.
And then there's the financials.
FY21 AMD revenue 16.4 billion dollars
FY21 Intel profit 43.815 billion dollars
[0]https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-intel-core-i9-...
> Can you show numbers that would support "eating one's lunch"?
It's imprudent to swallow bold, unsubstantiated assertions without even bothering to sniff test.
Lunch[1] is on me this time.
Earning money is different from market valuation
China's chips doesn't sell well in the global market, and yet they managed to launch their space station with them
What matter nowadays? how much money it makes, or what it allows them to do?
Should we be stuck with that kind of questions again, for how long? i'd like to see people playing on Mars, so let's promote what does the job better, not what sells better
AMD GPUs perform better than Intel ones, and they do it with close to half the TDP, that's just one example
I feel like talking about intel's 1st generation video cards as if that's the entire debate and future of intel is misleading and nonsensical. Intel hasn't really made discrete graphics cards before. Their first attempt missesd.
AMD was behind nvidia and intel for years and years in their respective businesses, but here we are and things have changed. Pretending like now that AMD has a efficiency edge over intel the entire game is over, ignores the fact that intel is still performance competitive on larger nodes and also improving their efficiency every year.
Intel is a more profitable company with more than enough R&D dollars to compete against amd. If you had applied your thinking to AMD anytime before the last 3 years you would have also declared them a dead company.
It's just not a consistent way of thinking.
As far as AMD vs Nvidia, NV is not behind AMD at all. Nothing has changed there. The 4090 obliterates the 6900XT at 4K in Cyberpunk.[0] And if you enable DLSS3, we're talking a minimum framerate of 10.6 FPS for the Radeon, with a minimum framerate of 118.27 FPS for the 4090. This won't dramatically change with the 7900XTX. Nvidia competes well with AMD up and down the stack. Intel has a midrange GPU that should reach Geforce 3070 performance once the drivers mature. The encoders, XeSS upscaling, and ray tracing performance are already great.
[0]https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-nvidia-geforce...
See: CYBERPUNK 2077, ULTRA RT, DX12, TAA
[1]https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-nvidia-geforce...
See: CYBERPUNK 2077 DRIVING, MAX, PSYCHO RT, DX12, DLSS 3
FY21 AMD revenue 16.4 billion dollars
FY21 Intel profit 43.815 billion dollars