most used three-axle full-size rv's start around 80k. these things seem like a grift to screw millennials out of what little cash they had in the first place.
most used three-axle full-size rv's start around 80k. these things seem like a grift to screw millennials out of what little cash they had in the first place.
That being said, we've had so many amazing times in it already and I'd make the same decision again because spending almost $200k on a van is ridiculous.
In contrast, if a buyer is forking over for a Sprinter chassis then the RV builder figures you want nicer construction and all the pieces are better and it doesn't disintegrate around you nearly as rapidly.
And just to put some concrete the class C quality… in no particular order… exterior latch screws which rust instantly, exterior locks with corrode to useless in a couple years, generator fuel pump lasts 30 hours, water tank did not have drill shavings removed when drilled (end up in strainer), water pump strainer installed backwards so it can't be emptied of said shavings, winterization drain valves are undocumented and inside a sealed compartment (found while replacing water pump which turned out to just be blocked by shavings), 120v electrical box with no cover because the wires were too bulky and it would not fit on (under the sink where you stick metal trays), roof membrane was slightly too short to overlap and engage front roof (manufacturer covered with copious sealant goo to hide, eventually failed and inflated roof while driving down road), mysterious current leak will drain starting battery if you park too long, battery combiner to use house batteries and generator to start main engine clicks relay but does not actually combine batteries, likewise circuit which chargers vehicle battery when plugged in does not function (there are no wiring diagrams available, not clear where it even should be), house fuse panel is so badly made that fuses bounce out while driving, furnace failed two ways in 5 years (once off, and once always on. Good variety at least), knobs snap off, anything screwed in might drop screws, black water tank outlet didn't fit so manufacturer kind of gooed it in place (it held for a couple years, sorry about that mess on your road, great state of California) . – In short (long) a class C is cheap for what you get, but is an ongoing project. Good news, you have room for plenty of tools and recovery equipment.
Van based vehicles have some advantages over the traditional RVs: Unibody construction, so better efficiency, drivability, easier to park, less obnoxious looking.
I have a Ford Transit with 600 watts of solar and a full sized computer workstation inside. I bought the vehicle used for 23k USD, and put another 10k in the build. If you DIY, it not that expensive.
A lot of this seems dumb but it would be nice to be the one selling overpriced camping stuff to millennials.
It's hard to beat the ratio of fuel efficiency, to living space in a good van conversion.
A trailer, even a short one, is a massive problem to park in urban areas and to turn around on remote forest roads. That said, teardrop campers have also been skyrocketing in popularity, as have rooftop tents.
Van conversions, in general, provide an pretty good balance between maneuverability, living space, gas mileage, amenities and price.
There are very expensive 6 figure conversion vans, but also simple ones for 4 figures. Again, it's all about what your priorities are and what tradeoffs you wanna make.
I would not discount the value of manueverability (even if you aren going to just be be moving between RV hookup locations )
And let's be real, this thing isn't going to be THAT off-road worthy. 30 inch tires are basically nothing these days. The wheelbase is too long... And what's the 3.5 inches of lift going to get you over? I doubt this thing will have enough power without a low-range to climb up any steep obstacles anyways. Especially once all the batteries / solar panels / and the rest of the "camping" gear are loaded up, these things are going to be too heavy to do much more than hit up some random logging roads on a dry day.
Ford's marketing team is doing a great job selling them though.
You can buy a 25 year old import control exempt tiny truck from Japan without issue in the US; If you want efficient truck you basically have to wait for it to age 25 years so it will be legal to import it into the US.
Also, you could even consider a new Ford Ranger. Sure they are bigger, but the gas mileage they get is really good. They can get 26 on the highway, and carry a lot more than a 25 year old Toyota. And it's brand new, so if that's your thing you have options.
Or consider an S10 or Colorado. The latest Colorados can get near 30mpg highway. The S10 was made up until 2012.
Part of being born in America and not having a very intelligent parent to guide you through involves being an easy target for an ever growing and complex series of grifts.
When I was homeless in North Dakota I met a guy with a Ford E350 ho bought for about the same price. He was handier than I was and as far as I can tell he could keep it running indefinitely from junkyard parts for almost nothing.
The grift is overselling what goes into the van, or a new and overbuilt van. The bigger issue is van-life dumps your externalities on everyone else -- you aren't paying property taxes but you probably still avail yourself of local public services and utilities as part of the cheap living. It doesn't scale.
Of course at some point someone saw dollar signs and the rest is history.
This was in 02006 so add 50% to all these numbers; the dollar has lost a third of its value since then.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blmurch/129519600
But we also drove about 10000 km during that time, a quarter of the way around the world, and that was the expensive part; something new would break on it every day. And the auto transport was a big expense caused by needing to meet a deadline even though I still had the engine apart. (The first time I paid someone else to rebuild it; the second time I did it myself.)
There were three weeks we were parked in a campground with a cracked cylinder head when I think we spent about US$600. If we'd been driving 30 km once a week, or 3 km every day, instead of over 100 km a day, and if we hadn't abused and overheated the engine, it would have been a pretty cheap way to live. I don't know if we could have gotten below US$100 a month but I think US$300 would have been within easy reach.
And it was the most pleasant place I've ever lived, but it didn't have a toilet. There wasn't room. But it had a propane refrigerator, a stove, a sink, a bed, storage space, a pop top, and a propane space heater.
That was 16 years ago, I think cars are better quality now. Finicky air-cooled engines are few and far between nowadays — the guy who bought the van from us sent a rod through the crankcase a few years later after driving 100km down the highway in second gear — and cars generally have better metals, more sensors, and less risk of bursting into flames.
If you were just looking for something that would safely provide shelter you wouldn't need something that was the most pleasant place I've ever lived. One night I slept in a Wal-Mart parking lot on an airbed in the bed of a pickup truck with a hardtop. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/7553195670.html is a 23-year-old pickup with hardtop for US$8000, with a 2.5-meter-long bed, and it's a Toyota, so you wouldn't have to fix something new on it every day.
Oh, about toilets. Piss is easy enough to manage in Gatorade bottles but shit requires more care. An ecovillage I used to spend a lot of time at, years after the Vanagon, used 20-liter plastic paint buckets for the shit. After shitting in the bucket you would throw in enough wood ash to raise the shit pH into a sterile range and also increase its osmotic pressure into a sterile range, preventing fermentation either aerobic or anaerobic, similar to a chemical toilet. They didn't keep the shit buckets in the living shelters but there was so little smell that I think it wouldn't have been a problem as long as you never spilled one. Later they switched to composting the shit, replacing the ash with dry leaves, which are reasonably effective and easier to get. I have used this solution, with the addition of a black garbage bag, when housesitting for a friend whose toilet was broken; at least over a short period of time there is no smell. These buckets cost US$6 new with a totally airtight lid.
For hygiene, we had wet wipes, rubbing alcohol, and clean cotton clothes. It's surprising how far those can get you, even if you aren't stopping in at truck rest stops and the houses of friends and relatives.
I am actually empathetic to children raised with dumb parents and yuppies who were grifted into selling their belongings to follow the tiny life trend.
Transits, sprinters, e350 etc are all very common/shared platforms and parts are incredibly cheap, well understood. Tire sizes are standard/cheap, and manufacturer warranty for the drivetrain often still applies. Significantly less GVW combined with 87 octane fuel in an economic 6 cylinder is very attractive to people into van life (for some reason).
Also considering GVW, tripping in an RV allows for very little flexability (imagine getting into a campsite in the woods). So you likely need to tow a smaller vehicle, which at that point may require a CDL depending on area.
Ya coulda just said "weight"!
EDIT - now off to Google "CDL".
Commercial drivers license
When towing, there's a separate weight rating called the gross combined weight rating (GCWR), which is the GVWR of the tow vehicle plus the GVWR of the trailer.
Now it will be possible also to buy quite capable Ford, which is a big plus for this market. After all, it's way easier to maintain Ford in US than Mercedes.
The fact that you can access so many more places could reasonably multiply the value of such a vehicle.
Honestly, it feels like a bit of a grift most of the time when I see prices like that for tiny houses or what are basically fancy mobile homes.
Large RVs are built up from a bare chassis. Much of the internal construction is done with the walls off. Small van-type RVs start with a fully assembled body. You have to build, plumb, wire in tight quarters.
Also, small custom fixtures are generally more expensive than standard fiberboard RV panels, drawers, etc.
Some lines like the Suzuki Carry are great, same tail light assembly for 1998-2020, same timing belt, same accessory belt, etc but that is a big thing that everyone seems to forget. Everyone "fetishizes" these cars, but most can't turn a wrench, or know how to order parts for them.
So it becomes a huge sunk cost. At the other hand, if you import them en massee, you also have a solid basis of guaranteed business. You can self guarantee a "warranty" on them for a huge premium with a "Swap out" guarantee, in case of disaster (for example, kei car is purchaed $500 at auction, shipping to USA is about $800-2000, and retail is $4500-$10,000).
That's where the marketing and service catch is at. 3 months warranty, free swap out, and then when that expires you have a customer for life, because most shops will not work on a car they can't order parts from a USA national supplier, or have access to interchange catalog.
But then it would be semi easier just to export/import whatever car was on Gran Turismo/Gran Turismo 2/Animes e.g. Initial D because those probably have minor interchange support and if there was a USA model, then parts are most likely 100% available, just that the car is in a RHD configuration vs LHD.
Some cars like a R32/R33 skyline, MK3 Supra are $$$$ priced out eternally though.
This is an 80k van. You can buy a ready to go motorhome for that. Nobody trying to have fun on a budget is buying this. The target buyers are going to piss their money away on status-broadcasting experiences and goods whether they piss it into Ford's bucket or someone else's. Why does Ford have any less right to get in on the action than any other business?