Want to live in a van down by the river? Ford has a new vehicle for that
cnbc.com
cnbc.com
most used three-axle full-size rv's start around 80k. these things seem like a grift to screw millennials out of what little cash they had in the first place.
Honestly, it feels like a bit of a grift most of the time when I see prices like that for tiny houses or what are basically fancy mobile homes.
Van based vehicles have some advantages over the traditional RVs: Unibody construction, so better efficiency, drivability, easier to park, less obnoxious looking.
I have a Ford Transit with 600 watts of solar and a full sized computer workstation inside. I bought the vehicle used for 23k USD, and put another 10k in the build. If you DIY, it not that expensive.
A lot of this seems dumb but it would be nice to be the one selling overpriced camping stuff to millennials.
It's hard to beat the ratio of fuel efficiency, to living space in a good van conversion.
A trailer, even a short one, is a massive problem to park in urban areas and to turn around on remote forest roads. That said, teardrop campers have also been skyrocketing in popularity, as have rooftop tents.
Van conversions, in general, provide an pretty good balance between maneuverability, living space, gas mileage, amenities and price.
There are very expensive 6 figure conversion vans, but also simple ones for 4 figures. Again, it's all about what your priorities are and what tradeoffs you wanna make.
I would not discount the value of manueverability (even if you aren going to just be be moving between RV hookup locations )
And let's be real, this thing isn't going to be THAT off-road worthy. 30 inch tires are basically nothing these days. The wheelbase is too long... And what's the 3.5 inches of lift going to get you over? I doubt this thing will have enough power without a low-range to climb up any steep obstacles anyways. Especially once all the batteries / solar panels / and the rest of the "camping" gear are loaded up, these things are going to be too heavy to do much more than hit up some random logging roads on a dry day.
Ford's marketing team is doing a great job selling them though.
You can buy a 25 year old import control exempt tiny truck from Japan without issue in the US; If you want efficient truck you basically have to wait for it to age 25 years so it will be legal to import it into the US.
Also, you could even consider a new Ford Ranger. Sure they are bigger, but the gas mileage they get is really good. They can get 26 on the highway, and carry a lot more than a 25 year old Toyota. And it's brand new, so if that's your thing you have options.
Or consider an S10 or Colorado. The latest Colorados can get near 30mpg highway. The S10 was made up until 2012.
This is an 80k van. You can buy a ready to go motorhome for that. Nobody trying to have fun on a budget is buying this. The target buyers are going to piss their money away on status-broadcasting experiences and goods whether they piss it into Ford's bucket or someone else's. Why does Ford have any less right to get in on the action than any other business?
Transits, sprinters, e350 etc are all very common/shared platforms and parts are incredibly cheap, well understood. Tire sizes are standard/cheap, and manufacturer warranty for the drivetrain often still applies. Significantly less GVW combined with 87 octane fuel in an economic 6 cylinder is very attractive to people into van life (for some reason).
Also considering GVW, tripping in an RV allows for very little flexability (imagine getting into a campsite in the woods). So you likely need to tow a smaller vehicle, which at that point may require a CDL depending on area.
Ya coulda just said "weight"!
EDIT - now off to Google "CDL".
Commercial drivers license
When towing, there's a separate weight rating called the gross combined weight rating (GCWR), which is the GVWR of the tow vehicle plus the GVWR of the trailer.
The fact that you can access so many more places could reasonably multiply the value of such a vehicle.
That being said, we've had so many amazing times in it already and I'd make the same decision again because spending almost $200k on a van is ridiculous.
In contrast, if a buyer is forking over for a Sprinter chassis then the RV builder figures you want nicer construction and all the pieces are better and it doesn't disintegrate around you nearly as rapidly.
And just to put some concrete the class C quality… in no particular order… exterior latch screws which rust instantly, exterior locks with corrode to useless in a couple years, generator fuel pump lasts 30 hours, water tank did not have drill shavings removed when drilled (end up in strainer), water pump strainer installed backwards so it can't be emptied of said shavings, winterization drain valves are undocumented and inside a sealed compartment (found while replacing water pump which turned out to just be blocked by shavings), 120v electrical box with no cover because the wires were too bulky and it would not fit on (under the sink where you stick metal trays), roof membrane was slightly too short to overlap and engage front roof (manufacturer covered with copious sealant goo to hide, eventually failed and inflated roof while driving down road), mysterious current leak will drain starting battery if you park too long, battery combiner to use house batteries and generator to start main engine clicks relay but does not actually combine batteries, likewise circuit which chargers vehicle battery when plugged in does not function (there are no wiring diagrams available, not clear where it even should be), house fuse panel is so badly made that fuses bounce out while driving, furnace failed two ways in 5 years (once off, and once always on. Good variety at least), knobs snap off, anything screwed in might drop screws, black water tank outlet didn't fit so manufacturer kind of gooed it in place (it held for a couple years, sorry about that mess on your road, great state of California) . – In short (long) a class C is cheap for what you get, but is an ongoing project. Good news, you have room for plenty of tools and recovery equipment.
Part of being born in America and not having a very intelligent parent to guide you through involves being an easy target for an ever growing and complex series of grifts.
When I was homeless in North Dakota I met a guy with a Ford E350 ho bought for about the same price. He was handier than I was and as far as I can tell he could keep it running indefinitely from junkyard parts for almost nothing.
The grift is overselling what goes into the van, or a new and overbuilt van. The bigger issue is van-life dumps your externalities on everyone else -- you aren't paying property taxes but you probably still avail yourself of local public services and utilities as part of the cheap living. It doesn't scale.
Of course at some point someone saw dollar signs and the rest is history.
This was in 02006 so add 50% to all these numbers; the dollar has lost a third of its value since then.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blmurch/129519600
But we also drove about 10000 km during that time, a quarter of the way around the world, and that was the expensive part; something new would break on it every day. And the auto transport was a big expense caused by needing to meet a deadline even though I still had the engine apart. (The first time I paid someone else to rebuild it; the second time I did it myself.)
There were three weeks we were parked in a campground with a cracked cylinder head when I think we spent about US$600. If we'd been driving 30 km once a week, or 3 km every day, instead of over 100 km a day, and if we hadn't abused and overheated the engine, it would have been a pretty cheap way to live. I don't know if we could have gotten below US$100 a month but I think US$300 would have been within easy reach.
And it was the most pleasant place I've ever lived, but it didn't have a toilet. There wasn't room. But it had a propane refrigerator, a stove, a sink, a bed, storage space, a pop top, and a propane space heater.
That was 16 years ago, I think cars are better quality now. Finicky air-cooled engines are few and far between nowadays — the guy who bought the van from us sent a rod through the crankcase a few years later after driving 100km down the highway in second gear — and cars generally have better metals, more sensors, and less risk of bursting into flames.
If you were just looking for something that would safely provide shelter you wouldn't need something that was the most pleasant place I've ever lived. One night I slept in a Wal-Mart parking lot on an airbed in the bed of a pickup truck with a hardtop. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/7553195670.html is a 23-year-old pickup with hardtop for US$8000, with a 2.5-meter-long bed, and it's a Toyota, so you wouldn't have to fix something new on it every day.
Oh, about toilets. Piss is easy enough to manage in Gatorade bottles but shit requires more care. An ecovillage I used to spend a lot of time at, years after the Vanagon, used 20-liter plastic paint buckets for the shit. After shitting in the bucket you would throw in enough wood ash to raise the shit pH into a sterile range and also increase its osmotic pressure into a sterile range, preventing fermentation either aerobic or anaerobic, similar to a chemical toilet. They didn't keep the shit buckets in the living shelters but there was so little smell that I think it wouldn't have been a problem as long as you never spilled one. Later they switched to composting the shit, replacing the ash with dry leaves, which are reasonably effective and easier to get. I have used this solution, with the addition of a black garbage bag, when housesitting for a friend whose toilet was broken; at least over a short period of time there is no smell. These buckets cost US$6 new with a totally airtight lid.
For hygiene, we had wet wipes, rubbing alcohol, and clean cotton clothes. It's surprising how far those can get you, even if you aren't stopping in at truck rest stops and the houses of friends and relatives.
I am actually empathetic to children raised with dumb parents and yuppies who were grifted into selling their belongings to follow the tiny life trend.
Large RVs are built up from a bare chassis. Much of the internal construction is done with the walls off. Small van-type RVs start with a fully assembled body. You have to build, plumb, wire in tight quarters.
Also, small custom fixtures are generally more expensive than standard fiberboard RV panels, drawers, etc.
Some lines like the Suzuki Carry are great, same tail light assembly for 1998-2020, same timing belt, same accessory belt, etc but that is a big thing that everyone seems to forget. Everyone "fetishizes" these cars, but most can't turn a wrench, or know how to order parts for them.
So it becomes a huge sunk cost. At the other hand, if you import them en massee, you also have a solid basis of guaranteed business. You can self guarantee a "warranty" on them for a huge premium with a "Swap out" guarantee, in case of disaster (for example, kei car is purchaed $500 at auction, shipping to USA is about $800-2000, and retail is $4500-$10,000).
That's where the marketing and service catch is at. 3 months warranty, free swap out, and then when that expires you have a customer for life, because most shops will not work on a car they can't order parts from a USA national supplier, or have access to interchange catalog.
But then it would be semi easier just to export/import whatever car was on Gran Turismo/Gran Turismo 2/Animes e.g. Initial D because those probably have minor interchange support and if there was a USA model, then parts are most likely 100% available, just that the car is in a RHD configuration vs LHD.
Some cars like a R32/R33 skyline, MK3 Supra are $$$$ priced out eternally though.
Now it will be possible also to buy quite capable Ford, which is a big plus for this market. After all, it's way easier to maintain Ford in US than Mercedes.
The main reason for this is because showering and washing stuff (clothes/dishes) and generally keeping clean is a huge pain in just a van. Without a source of fresh water and easy way to store and heat it, you get dirty really fast. Especially if you're hiking / mountain biking / doing whatever beyond just sitting around.
These showers from what I seen are a large private room with a code lock so you can peacefully freshen up.
The youtubers I follow stress that you have to be extra strict to maintain cleanliness especially if you live in your car. They develop daily routines for cleaning and it seems to work from what I can see.
I definitely know one guy like you mention. He has a $60k used van build but stays in motels when it's cold. Has to do a bunch of cold prep work (put up insulation, turn on a heater) in the van at night before he goes to bed in the motel. We were ribbing him for doing all this shit with his van with terrible MPG and scary driving on windy, icy roads in Montana (2WD very tall vehicle), while we were zipping around in a small SUV, but he likes the van because it's a trendy conversation piece / fantasy fulfillment.
It works out quite well and he can afford it, so it's a great solution for comfort while traveling (no single night motel hassles) and is still fine once he gets there.
Some people handwash clothes. Others use laundromats.
For the most part, I renovated our bus in a few days so it's nothing slick. We didn't bother with a bathroom because it's a lot of extra effort for something you rarely need. Maybe it disgusts some people, but when camping I can go 10+ days without a shower and don't feel horrible. People sponge-bath or use wipes. People with van showers often just use them as wet storage areas.
RV parks in the US right now are US$40-100. If you're not boondocking, state/national park campgrounds are often $35-40 range - you can get a mid-week basic motel in a little town for $40-50 and chew through someone else's internet, hot water, etc.
Many people forgo a sink, but washing dishes isn't too painful, even with unheated water or water heated on a gas cooktop if you don't have a hot water system.
We typically travelled with a few gallons of drinking water and then 10 gallons of water for washing up. People with better setups would have a lot more. Expedition vehicles have even more (water, grey, black and fuel, etc).
TL;DR: some of these things are glossed over because they're boring. Washing up isn't difficult in a van/bus. People use laundromats for clothes. Showers/bathrooms use up more space and are a hassle to build.
Seems like a significant price for an empty van. I can only imagine the upfit costs post-van would run you up into the "why didn't I buy a class B from the start" territory.
Not if your target audience is hippie remote workers that make good money and want to travel around the country.
I would never, ever want to buy someone else's "project" RV when they decide to get rid of it. You don't know what corners were cut there. (I know I'm hypocritical here, I know RVs aren't always the best built think in Elkheart (or Forest City), but at least an RV has an expected standard of things you get.)
While the price point on this trim is high compared to base, they are just capturing some of the value previously going to aftermarket body shops.
I doubt most DIYers are buying a new vehicles to convert. This will probably be sold directly to professional converters.
They mention a 3.5 inch lift, and some 30 inch tires. That's all I can find. Can't find a single other thing that makes this "off road" worthy other than a bunch of useless black cladding.
This is probably as beefed up as an AWD Rav4 is vs a FWD Rav4.
I am skeptical at how many people are investing a house down payment into a Sprinter van. There are plenty of people out there doing it for a fraction of the cost.
But you're right that there are definitely people doing it cheaper. We're an Australian family who bought an old bus in the US for $3500 and then spent $5-7k on fitting it out across two trips. We sold a half-share to another Australian and recouped some of the money. Car hire alone would be thousands per month and motels right now are not cheap, so it's worked for us. Gas costs remain the enduring issue, however, especially if you're moving around a lot to see things and not just living in a localised area.
Whoever makes an EV-based van chassis to build upon will sell loads.
Do it yourselfers can do it cheaper.
Today an off-grid van will have two or three ways of charging the batteries, enough water to last a week, a toilet that needs emptying once every few months, and a heater and enough insulation to comfortably camp in the next big freeze. Traditional manufacturers are starting to realise some of these things, but most are still primarily designed to be used on a campsite with a mains hookup.
[1]World’s first car-powered hotel set to open to guests:
https://www.hyundai.news/uk/articles/press-releases/world-s-...
This price is directly compatible to well-configured F-150 or Mercedes Sprinter.
Any equipped class B is way more than this. I know people who installed stuff themselves and saved bunch of cost this way.
I'm not sure this is much of an issue for the target market. As the song goes: slow ride, take it easy...
That said, the market is very small/niche.
They could go the way that all the other companies go -- release a chassis for manufacturers to build on.
If Tesla could convince a few big name surfers and other extreme athletes to use them plus a few high profile digital nomads they'd be absolutely laughing to the bank. They could also use the same chassis for a panel van like the Transit and Sprinter which would be something that would make them a ton of money.
P.S. But, but they have time to work on "humanoid robot"?
Specifically, I'm thinking of two examples so far:
1. Ford Lightning electric pickup
2. This van
Neither of these are super unique in the market but that's not really the point. Maybe I'm out of touch but my impression of automakers is 10-year lead times and a fixed selection with maximum mainstream appeal, and a few trims and color choices. Conversely, Ford seems to be jumping on "niche trends" (again, relative to the industry) with only a year or two of lead time.
They added a 3.5 inch lift, and some slightly bigger tires. Gave it a trendy "Trail" name. There isn't much else out there for information.
It's a marketing stunt. And a smart one at that.
To OP point, rich people pretending to play poor for vlogging and self-idealized virtuosity can't wait 5+ days to get 200m range out of solar panels, videos gotta go out daily!
EV RVs:
- better torque for travelling and towing
- regen braking
- skateboard battery for maximum interior space and storage
- simpler powertrain
- battery can function as a home powerwall when you're home, if you have a home
- solar panels to keep energy-positive while parked
- low center of gravity to offset some of the RV tippiness
And Starlink keeps you connected everywhere you go...
And IF they solve highway self-driving to the point you can safely let the RV drive and self-recharge overnight... oh my god.
> And IF they solve highway self-driving to the point you can safely let the RV drive and self-recharge overnight... oh my god.
A moderately optimistic estimate for power production is about 1kWh per square meter of panels per day. With a 25 square meter roof, and saving 80% of the power, that's 20kWh and probably gives you 20-40 miles of range.
(If you meant driving and recharging overnight via plugging in, then sure that's cool, but self-driving with stops at stations isn't inherently an electric-exclusive experience.)
That giant battery could potentially power your climate control and appliances etc when off grid. And if you run down the battery by accident, you won’t be stuck for long.
Or getting free heating, depending on the climate.
If someone only needs to travel < 30 kms per day (per sunny day), then they can fill up the tank on an IC engine for $100 and be set for a month.
BTW by "avoid annoying sedentists" upthread I meant "avoid annoying the sedentists", not "avoid the annoying sedentists".
3 miles per hour is 40 miles per day. You stay in a place for three days off grid you can probably drive back. And bottomless power for cooking, heat, internet/starlink, etc.
My dream is an EV RV that has airline-level highway self driving and starlink+solar panels. I'd sell everything and live in that.
Don't worry about it. Ford sells an electric version of the Transit van. Every single new piece of this ready-to-convert van will have a part number that you can order at every Ford dealer on earth. Once everything is available, someone with the cash to burn is going to figure out what works together and provide a list so you can make your own without wasting money.
The article says that this will cost $15k more than a base Transit passenger van. I'm not sure that is a good apples-to-apples comparison, but whatever. Again, once it's available, people are going to figure out whether it's a better deal to buy the whole van or just the parts that are useful to you.
It cannot be a mainstream solution, thou. Even if it just about sewage this type of lifestyle does not scale to large crowds of people.
Burning Man attendees are probably the target audience for this kind of vehicle.
Burning Man requires a lot of work in advance, it is not people going down to live by a river.
https://burningman.org/event/preparation/playa-living/human-...
So more like "Earning Man"?
Camping by rivers (and crossing them) is serious mum.
The cost of the vehicle AND the entire trip (ALL expenses) was only a touch more than the barebones van in the article.
Outside of the main cities many rural people work across a big area, I grew up in the Kimberley and spent a decade or so in global geophysical exploration across all the continents and many countries - I can get by with a swag but I do like a good minimal fit out :-)
Your jeep looks pretty tidy - clearly did the job!.
and then there's always the bike option (a fellow W.Australian):
I'm just finishing up 50,000km around Australia, have been in a swag for the last 12 months.
I SMS'd my father who's heading in to town (Perth) later today, he might drop in over the weekend to look at the toys, he'll be just another 87 yr old with a critical and curious eye.
Best wishes for the show, hope you enjoyed Oz :-)
Things produced within the EU can be a better deal if it’s not too labor intensive. Camper bands are a good example of something being built within the EU and able to have a price advantage, even after factoring in taxes.
Take, for example, an iphone 14 pro, base model. Prices are from apple.com and apple.com/fr as of today. I choose this because it's the exact same model that's available from the same retailer, so easy to compare. But this happens with many other products.
US: 999 USD FR: 1329 EUR
That's way more than 23% (999 * 1.03 * 1.2 = 1235).
1 USD = 1.03 EUR (according to google)
French VAT: 20%
French import tax: 0% on phones (surprising, but there you have it: https://www.douane.gouv.fr/fiche/calcul-des-droits-et-taxes-...)
Hell, when I was in college, (~2010, in France), I used to be really into photography. Bought a tripod and head. Italian brand, made in Italy. It was cheaper for me to order it from B&H in NY, pay for conversion charges, shipping, import duties, VAT, etc on top of the shipping, than it was to buy it local. Both Italy and France had the Euro at the time.
Maybe it's because California has got a performant agriculture.
Mostly housing, healthcare and education are more expensive in the US but consumer prices are generally significantly lower. Check numbeo.
Sort of like Rice-er-oni, I tried to find some when in San Francisco, but all the restaurants had none. ?!?!
But hey, that’s why we need an intermodal private pod transport system. Purchase and decorate your pod to taste, then live and work in it as poorly-paid drivers ferry you and several other pods (each lacking line of sight on the other) around the world.
I look forward to blog posts filled with live, detailed accounts of startups losing pods (with their indignant customers inside them) at various rail and shipping depots.
It sounds depressing, but, I don’t know. In a far enough future, I wouldn’t mind a flying spaceship to work from. Might land it from time to time at a beach.
It’s a little bit of a redefinition of property. Han Solos property wasn’t actual land. It was the Millennium Falcon and unobstructed Space. Luckily for Americans, we have a shit ton of highways. So we have the space part, just not the spaceships (those little pods that move around with auto pilot).
Your premise was also central to a Judge Dredd story but I don't know the title.
1. Before Covid times and increasing demand, buying new at 40% off the list price was possible, you just had to time it right with new models coming out.
2. RVs lose something like 20-30% of their value in the first year, 50% in the first 4-6 years.
Buy used, it's better that way (all the warranty work has been dealt with; very few brands manage to build them well enough to not need warranty work).
Cars are a big chunk of the US family budget. Here should be a good way to save a LOT of money:
Start with a Ford 2-door sedan from the 1940s, 1950s, or maybe 1960s.
Use a modern electronic controlled system for the fuel mixture and ignition.
Use modern, long lasting suspension ball joints and bushings.
Use disk brakes with dual master cylinders.
Use a modern automatic transmission.
Use modern rubber formulations in the tires.
Do what have to do for current laws on the exhaust system, and try to use modern materials that will do well resisting corrosion.
Otherwise, keep it as it was: No additional electronics or systems. Certainly no 'stability control' and hopefully no 'ABS'. Stability control steps on the brakes when I don't want to, and ABS releases the brakes when I step on them -- get rid of both of them.
No electric windows.
No power steering.
No power brakes.
No air conditioning.
Now, what might the price have to be????? One half current prices? One third? Only 20%???
Cheaper to buy and to maintain.
I'd especially like a stick shift transmission with very wide ratios, maybe 4:1 first gear, and a very low number rear axle ratio, maybe 2.5:1.
Apparently could still use some of the 6 or 8 cylinder engines used back then -- apparently are still using them with little change.
If you want something spartan you may have to look at a less regulated market like motorcycles.
Now I'm especially glad my car, used I bought recently, is too old to have ESP. It has ABS which doesn't work -- fine with me. The brakes, with dual master cylinders, work fine. A guess is that the problem with ABS is a corroded electrical ground connection back to the frame -- that illustrates one of my concerns for ABS, ESP, etc., maintenance problems.
To me some good news is likely most or all of these electronic systems can fail and the car will be more like one from the 1950s and still work fine. So, if ESP or ABS gets sick, just cut some wires and drive off just fine!
I've driven nearly 1 million miles with only one accident, not serious, and with no insurance claims! I have a squeaky clean driving record and am a total cream puff customer for the auto insurance industry. In all that driving, I never had, needed, or wanted either ABS or ESP.
I used to do a LOT of driving, and cost, time, botheration for maintenance of the car was always an issue. For so much driving the current cars with ABS, ESP, etc. look more expensive, both to buy and to maintain, by a factor of several.
All of this urgency to make cars more complicated looks like a big shot in the gut of the US family budget: US families are having a tough time paying for a house, schooling for the kids, groceries, medical care, and now the cost of driving is a factor of several more expensive than it was and could be.
Looks like there will be some ups/downs, I don't know which, of prices in the used car market. E.g., maybe some owner of a recent car gets a repair estimate of $15,000 to fix one of these super electronic systems and decides to sell the car. Then the price on the used car market might be nicely low! And the buyer of the used car just disables the electronic system!
Yes, I know, there was a big problem of smog from cars in NYC, LA, maybe another 10 large US cities, but I never lived in any of those places and now live in TN with no chance of any smog problems.
Besides, a lot of the US has, had, no smog problem: Some parts have very low population density and people can get winter heat from wood fires that put out smoke and still have no smog or smoke problems! Smoke from a wood fire? Ah, smells like home at Thanksgiving or Christmas! And a lot of the rest of the US is farming country where there are tractors, often Diesel, with little or nothing for smog reduction -- with, wonder of wonders, still no smog problem!
There's long been a big theme: Go after the cars!!! That's part of a bigger theme, really popular in some parts of Europe: We all need more government to do things for us!!!!
I like seat belts fine. Maybe air bags are worth the cost and botheration. ESP, modulating the power to the drive wheels, applying the brakes in tricky ways -- I can't believe that that would actually be good for anything.
Spoken like a dude who's never lived in a place with air inversions.
> Smoke from a wood fire? Ah, smells like home at Thanksgiving or Christmas!
Smells like cancer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3002194/
Right: I have no idea just what that is!
Generally I like the NIH, but I would not be the least bit worried about the increased probability of cancer in actual, real life from an NIH study of common smoke from a fire used to cook some food or heat a house.
(1) That study would be too tough to do with much accuracy, e.g., too difficult to get good data.
(2) Maybe they got some smoke, let it condense, painted it on the skin of some mice, and checked for early signs of cancer. Gee, if I become a mouse, then I will be careful not to paint smoke goo on my bare skin and leave it there for weeks.
(3) Maybe they analyzed some of the chemicals in some smoke, just in a little glass dish in their lab tested the chemicals for being mutagenic, and then made the leap that this means carcinogenic.
I just noticed at Google that the WHO (World Health Organization) believes that "processed meats" are carcinogenic -- guess I should not put pepperoni sausage on my pizza and should throw away my hot dogs and my Italian sausage. Gee, what about BBQ cooked in a smoker? What about the old practice of preserving fresh meat in a "smoke house" -- assume the meat is sterile on the inside and with the smoke make it also sterile on the outside. If not smoke, then salt.
You don't really believe that NIH stuff??
Methods Using questionnaire data, we classified subjects as predominant solid-fuel users (e.g., coal, wood) or nonsolid-fuel users (e.g., oil, gas, electricity). Unconditional logistic regression was used to estimate the odds ratios (ORs) and to compute 95% confidence intervals (CIs), adjusting for age, sex, education, smoking status, race/ethnicity, and study center.
Results Compared with nonsolid-fuel users, predominant coal users (OR = 1.64; 95% CI, 1.49–1.81), particularly coal users in Asia (OR = 4.93; 95% CI, 3.73–6.52), and predominant wood users in North American and European countries (OR = 1.21; 95% CI, 1.06–1.38) experienced higher risk of lung cancer. The results were similar in never-smoking women and other subgroups.
> You don't really believe that NIH stuff??
I don't disbelieve it. We already know that long-term exposure to other kinds of smoke causes lung cancer and other health problems, what's special about wood smoke?
For just regression, there are some supporting arguments, even with minimal assumptions. For logistic regression?
Apparently they controlled on lots of variables -- commonly that is fishy and tends to need a lot, too much, data. For data they had
(5,105 cases and 6,535 controls)
Good grief!
From the NIH reference you gave,
"... Globally, lung cancer is estimated to account for almost 1.4 million incident cases of cancer each year and has been the most common cancer in the world for more than two decades (Parkin et al. 2005). "
Good grief.
All of this is only because I typed in
"Smoke from a wood fire? Ah, smells like home at Thanksgiving or Christmas!"
It still does! Hmm, maybe there will be a movement to outlaw new fireplaces and to brick up old ones!
Uh, at the beginning of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6bRBQL_j6o
of a guy posting video clips of his work on building post frame building, there is a picture of his huge living room with his little wood burning furnace and its tall smokestack rising to the outside. Such furnaces tend to try to be nearly air tight, but likely there will be enough smoke in the house to smell like Thanksgiving or Christmas! Then the main smoke does go outside -- hmm, maybe all of Iowa will be afraid???
If you are beginner in your journey, like I was initially, (no tinted windows, exiting vehicle before re-entering from the back to sleep), then I would recommend Walmarts. They always have car campers parked overnight, many people sleeping within earshot, round the clock security cruising around, easy to find privacy where you are surrounded by a tree or bush or something on front&side of vehicle.
If you are advanced (tinted windows, rainguards to crack open windows without being visible, internal supplementary window covers so you can have lights inside while blacked out from outside, and a way of getting to the sleeping area without exiting the vehicle), then the world is your oyster. You get very good at developing a sixth sense for safety, just based on how the people on the streets are behaving, the houses, the trashiness, etc, but you can also use my favorite method: fire up Zillow and find rich neighborhoods and/or find neighborhoods with artisanal French bakeries.
This American Ford Transit van has a cousin that is currently being sold in the UK and Europe. It's official Ford's vehicle with collaboration with Westfalia that has more than 70 years designing campervan conversion vehicles [1]. The version with the toilet inside is called Ford Transit Nugget Plus and the waiting time is more than a year. It can cater for four adults sleeping inside and has the built-in toilet unlike the normal Nugget van.
[1]The Nugget Plus Highroof:
https://westfalia-mobil.de/en/modelle/westfalia-nugget-hochd...
https://jalopnik.com/honda-once-made-a-car-specifically-for-...
Popping over to the Wikipedia page, the connections to SNL continue:
> James D. Farley Jr. (born June 10, 1962) is an American businessman who is the CEO of Ford and a board member of Harley-Davidson.[1] His career in automobiles was inspired by his grandfather, who began work at Henry Ford's River Rouge Plant in 1918.
Not sure how many under 35 will get the joke…like the fascination with the CD-Rom in the Jurassic Park Ford Explorer.
The motivational speaker is doing the same bit, trying to scare kids with the prospect of having to "live in a van, down by the river". The kids seem excited at the prospect. They ask the speaker if he really thinks they could ever afford such a thing, if he knows of anybody selling an affordable van, or if he knows anywhere they could even visit the river that hasn't been filled up with industrial trash.
The motivational speaker grows increasingly frustrated with the kids, seemingly unable to get across to them why living in a van down by the river is a bad thing. The kids just don't seem to understand. The motivational speaker gets so frustrated that he has a heart attack and dies on the spot.
Cut to the settling of the motivational speaker's estate. It turns out he owned an entire camp ground and trailer park, making a top-tier income off of the rent from many people living in various vehicles down by the river. The kids sign a 50 year mortgage to buy the speaker's rusty old van from the speaker's kids, getting implanted with subcutaneous microchips to help secure the loan. They smile as the sun sets on their new waterfront view, beyond the line of new/expensive vans closer to the water. They live happily ever after.
You’ll have plenty of time to figure it out…
L-track the full length of the back that the bench seat is in and can slide along, swiveling front seats, standalone power system, insulated window covers for every window, and planning on the Westfalia style roof tent that is available.
It tows 5,000 lbs, has a 2,200 lb payload, and gets over 30mpg at 60mph on the highway (32.5 yesterday). Most practical vehicle I've owned, but as I said, we only did a partial upfitting as we don't need the "living" stuff, just the "camping" and flexible use stuff (my son is autistic and it's his space when he can't handle grocery shopping, etc.).
[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g41844354/2023-ford-transi...
And obligatory link for DIY van conversions since it's missing in article:
Most people are shorter or spend the money on flares. (Flarespace)
[1]https://westfalia-mobil.de/en/modelle/westfalia-nugget-hochd...
Still, there isn't a lot of novelty to this article-- no new technology, no real changes besides a slightly bolstered build for outdoor travel. The article just describes a new Ford vehicle and tells you the price and when it's available. How is this newsworthy?
I don’t understand why this doesn’t exist. Is it because vans become so prone to tipping that they can never behave like a truck?
Edit: Just a full sized suv but with all the back seating area converted to living space.
Depending on the truck you might need to change the suspension for the new weight.
Example of a camper for OHV https://vagabondoutdoors.com/product/the-drifter/
Why isn't anyone making center drive Van Life!? Van Life is a great vehicle for testing 'grounded space life' and the entire vehicle should exude that feeling.
Center drive vans are the future of Mobile Living Spaces.