Comment by lrvick | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lrvick | Hacker News Reader

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Or maybe you visit a different country, like China, where Apple has ceded all power over their servers and encryption keys to the CCP.

Or even in the US, the courts you think will save you could be the very ones ordering your data because you are suspected of a crime because you typed a certain trigger phrase that activates an automated warrant like those Google has.

The 4th amendment only protects you when data is stored on your property. When it is in control of a corporation, the corporation gets the warrant, not you.

Or maybe Apple simply changes their terms of service to resemble that of TikTok or Facebook giving them more or less complete legal freedom over your data.

Or maybe it is just a rouge Apple system administrator that does not care about the rules.

You can not own an Apple device and the data on it is at the mercy of choices made by remote humans with incentives very different from yours.

Power that exists will always be abused. It is how humans work.

Maybe, the sky is falling, maybe it isn’t.

> Power that exists will always be abused.

I hate to break it to you, but power isn’t going anywhere, and it isn’t always abused.

Telling the difference is what matters.

I hold my own data on devices that I own on property that I own.

No one has legal power to change their terms of service governing my data, or issue secret warrants, or extralegal power to outright take my digital property.

Would those situations ever have seriously impacted me in the first place? Probably not. Thing is though, they can and do affect a lot of people.

The more people that learn to take back control of their digital property, the safer we all are.

I was just making the point that Apple hardware and the data on it is not in your control. If you fully trust Apple and your politicians to never mistakenly target you or anyone you recommend the same practices to, then you are all good.

The comments you are making on HN right this very moment are contrary to what you preach. HN owns the data on your account, not you.

I cannot assume your jurisdiction, but if one were to believe what you have stated, these assumptions would need to be true:

1) you’ve never flown anywhere before 2) you do not belong to any single country (you need to be a nomad, as all modern countries have identification systems in place for their citizens) 3) you’re using internet at a cafe because if you are paying any bills to your ISP that’s game over

-

I find it highly improbable you speak the truth. I’m sorry to say, but it really seems like the type of comment made by an “ignorance is bliss” type of individual that has recently watched an episode of mr robot.

I am easy to look up, as well as what I do for a living, if you wish to do so.

The data I post on HN is public. When I post data to a public place it is no longer mine. I am not a luddite, I simply have separation of concerns between public and personal life. Data that is not public, is mine.

When I fly, I accept this is a public event. All parties are transparent about this. You will however be hard pressed to buy a record of the local locations I frequent or what I purchase at a pharmacy without an expensive private investigator because I do not carry a cell phone and I pay cash.

The data that I consider mine, such as personal family photos, detailed location history, my IoT product usage, etc, lives in servers I physically own on property I own. Not unlike a box of photos in someones attic. If you want to rifle through it, get a warrant. No surveillance capitalism companies will have a chance at buying that data regardless.

I do sometimes use third party services to distribute private data, such as matrix.org. The privata data such as DMs can not be decrypted or controlled by the server operators, and only by my keys on devices I control all software on. That data is mine too.

You do not need to trust your ISP to have a useful level of digital sovereignty.

> No one has legal power to change their terms of service governing my data, or issue secret warrants, or extralegal power to outright take my digital property.

I don’t see how this is even close to true. Governments seize property all the time.

Sure, but if the data lives on my property then they need to get a judge to sign off on probable cause and show me the warrant. Then at least I am aware of what is happening and can challenge it in court, or go public, if it is unjustified.

When the data lives with Apple or Google, they can just secretly take it, even in bulk. The NSA wire taps on Google and others were a real thing that actually happened. No pesky constitutional protections in the way for the data you freely give to corporations.

> Sure, but if the data lives on my property then they need to get a judge to sign off on probable cause and show me the warrant. Then at least I am aware of what is happening and can challenge it in court, or go public, if it is unjustified.

In principle, but not in practice. All they need is a witness for probably cause, and once they have your stuff, you aren’t going to get it back without a bankrupting fight, if at all.

If you think the government plays fair in the real world, you might want to have a discussion with a Mr Assange, currently a guest of King Charles III.

> When the data lives with Apple or Google, they can just secretly take it, even in bulk. The NSA wire taps on Google and others were a real thing that actually happened.

The NSA wire taps were ruled illegal. How satisfying.

They may be able to confiscate my stuff, but I will at least make them put in the work to target me individually and make them find that judge and that witness and that warrant. Doing that for -everyone- is infeasible and expensive which was the exact point of the constitution. It is designed to clip the wings of hopeful authoritarian elements of our government.

Also, because I control my technology, and my encryption keys, the constitution gives me one other major protection. The right to not self-incriminate, or, the right to not give them additional rope to hang me with.

No one knows my decryption passwords but me, and no one can compel me to reveal them legally.

It is exactly because the government does not always play fair, as you point out, that every citizen owes it to themselves and each other to limit their power.

Meanwhile you give up all rights and control of your data when you agree to the terms of service of Apple or Google. They will hand over your plain text data without your knowledge or consent if you merely say the wrong trigger phrase.

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