Hacker News Reader

Comment by nxmnxm99 | Hacker News Reader

It's a nice sentiment but really isn't accurate.... unless you're suggesting nerds don't get bullied in Europe

I was the nerd-ish type as a teenager back in 1990s Eastern Europe and I don't remember getting bullied. I knew things were slightly different in the US, I mean the whole "cool girls" group thing and all, as we were able to watch stuff like Saved by the Bell [1] on TV, but that kind of atmosphere seemed strange to us at the time.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096694/

Same exact thing for me. Nerds definitely weren't getting bullied, if you were good at maths and physics maybe girls weren't into you but the "bullies" didn't really mess with people who were good at sciences(I guess partially because they had to copy their homework from someone, so keeping good relations with the "nerds" was actually a good survival strategy)

> I guess partially because they had to copy their homework from someone, so keeping good relations with the "nerds" was actually a good survival strategy

I was about to also mention the "copy homework" part, but I thought that would have sounded too specific, certainly glad that I wasn't the only one to whom that happened :) I've had a former highschool colleague thank me for everything I had helped her with during high-school at our 20 years reunion recently, she was a very smart person back then (still is) but the Physics classes just weren't for her.

Not in the same way. US high school clique dynamics are very much US-specific.

As a pretty nerdish guy (Computers, space program, star trek, electronics, miniatures painting) in our central European equivalent of high school, I don't remember instances of bullying against me. Bullying was something that we were aware of, sure, but it seemed to come from (US-centered, go figure) media, and henfighting between the girls.

Its funny that this is still a thing - the only reason why bullying happens is because the culture of it is not broken by the school itself.

My kids go to a scholl where: 1: you can only ever arrange playdates or gatherings with a maximum of 2 other kids - or its the whole class 2: bullying is not allowed in any way shape or form 3: no one is allowed to exclude others from games, plays or events 4: this is rigorously enforced 5: no smartphones or the likes until 4th grade (11-12)

This is then instilled in parents and kids, any crossing of those lines is debated in a democratic way and creates a selfenforcing positive feedback Loop

I think you have an extremely naive view of both children and bullying. My daughter goes to a school with very similar rules, and they're followed up by the school, and if you where to talk to the parents I'm sure at least half of them would claim that the school has no bullying or at least handles it very well. And despite all this, my daughter still got horribly bullied by her classmates.

No not really, was bullied myself, understands the dynamics and bullying is a group phenomenon - not a one on one. If your peers a very aware of it not being allowed and discouraging it - you dont't get the social "credits" for applying it and it fizzles - then again if you dont learn the lesson you're expelled.

Works

Works

I disagree. Sure you can stop the most obvious and visible bullying, like physical altercations and obnoxious name calling, and make people generally 'behave' themselves while at school, but that just means the bullies becomes more careful and subtle, not that they stop.

At my school, no rules - or kids - had to be "broken". It was not supression of a behaviour, the behaviour just did not exist. If people behaved badly, the group was self-governing, making clear to the offender that their behaviour was "not cool" - and thus, they weren't. If you have a cultural problem that shows itself in bullying, fire the teachers. Also consider stopping adversarial school activities.

If these rules extends to life outside of school, I would be concerned more than relieved by rules 1 and 3. We should not normalise state-level control of our private gatherings by teaching freedom of association is somehow evil in children. It also would give a group of kids no way to sanction against antisocial behaviour by another kid (cheating in a game comes to mind).

That this has the thin varnish of "democratic debate" (which, let's be honest, will be quickly overruled if the kids decide the rules are stupid) only adds the additional aspect of showing in real-life how democracy is a scam that enforces things the powers to be like to happen while giving the impression it was a majority decision.

it was not supression of a behaviour, the behaviour just did not exist

Or you just didn't see and experience it. There is more to bullying than everybody standing in a circle and openly making fun of the "nerd". Most successful bullies are very good at hiding their bullying from people they know wouldn't approve. Having had the unfortunate experience of seeing my daughter get bullied, bullies are sneaky, insidious and very good at keeping their behaviour just on the right side of plausible deniability. I fully believe that over half of her class had no idea she was being bullied.

Well added to that is that you have to take every single one in your class home for a playdate at least once, and that multiple playdates in a row with the same kids are discouraged. It seems draconic and controlling - but it creates an incredible cohesive social group in each class

It seems like it actively discourages creating bonds and friendships in exchange of a "greater common good".

It also seems like they should have gotten an ethics committee approval on what is very obviously a psychological experiment on minors, similar to Muzafer Sherif's "Robber's Cave" [1]?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbers_Cave_Experiment

I did not noticed nerd vs jock dichotomy the way Americans write about it on discussion forums at all. Nothing similar to movies stereotypes either.

And my experience from my school is not like that either. You could have been "geek" or "nerd" or onto something and no one cared. Being good at something was cool or neutral.

nerds don't get bullied in Europe

While some 'nerds' certainly did (and do) get bullied, in my experience they where just as likely to get bullied by other 'nerds' as they where to get bullied by 'jocks'. You didn't get bullied because you played D&D or Warhammer or where good at math, you got bullied because you where weird and anti-social and unable to successfully navigate the unwritten social norms expected of you. Lots of people got straight A's in math and science and played Warhammer and had no problem with bullying.

It depends on what you call 'nerd' I guess. I learned myself how to program at 14. Never got bullied for that, and my friends all thought that was cool.

Did kids get bullied? Sure. But it had more to do with social awkwardness than certain interests or school results.

And for the 'popular kids', I could not define who the popular kids in my school could be. Not all girls would try to hang out with certain guys. Each girl had their own interests and that could differ a lot. A concept like a "prom king or queen" for me is totally out of this world. I cannot imagine that concept in my youth, and could also have no clue who the hell would be nominated for such a thing. In my adult life now? Sure, probably the guy with the successful business driving the sports car. In my youth, no idea, nobody stood out like that.

Nerds can be bullied everywhere.

The difference with the US is about the social dynamics and the organization of school life, not about whether a nerd might be bullied.

The same way school shootings are an order of magnitude or two less common in Europe, in an total area with more population than the US has.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com