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There’s some truth here, but the fact is we are all lost or deluded to some extent.

The idea that we must perfect ourselves before we enter a relationship with others is common in internet advice and frankly wrong. One of the main ways we heal and grow as people is through relationships. Relationships test us and can be a vital mirror, showing us things that would be otherwise invisible. They are also an incentive to do better for the good of others in our lives. Finally, they give us the chance to heal others similarly, our partners are never perfect either.

Does that mean that having kids will solve your problems? Of course not. The idea that you should be ok with or without kids is also fraught. It’s a question of degree, perhaps being obsessed with having kids is bad, but wanting them and being disappointed in not having them is fine.

There is a pretty wide gamut between "being happy with oneself" and "perfecting oneself".

They are orthogonal, plenty of people are happy with themselves despite being abusive or toxic. It’s a poor heuristic for one’s ability to socialize with others or be a parent. Also, unhappiness can be something people are in denial about.

I think what people are trying to say is that if you want to become a parent you should be capable of providing the child with a good childhood. That’s an admirable goal but answering that question is exceedingly tricky.

> The idea that we must perfect ourselves before we enter a relationship with others is common in internet advice and frankly wrong.

Ok when they give consent like your spouse. The to be born kid did not. Kids are not anyone's property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

To play devil’s advocate to this mindset: life isn’t an optimization game. When you’re being nibbled away at by maggots or a pile of ashes, you will receive no trophy for how you optimized your life in a particular order.

You don’t need to perfect one thing to do something else. Nor does getting your ducks in a row on one thing guarantee you’ll be better off in another.

Sometimes you hurl yourself into the fire and you get burned. Sometimes you hurl yourself into the fire and you figure out everything else because you did it.

I know several once lost and now successful adults who found their drive and focus in the moment they held their first child in their arms. Others who, like you said, are still lost.

If you want to have kids, have kids. You’ll figure it out. Sometimes you won’t. Don’t sit around and wait for the optimal circumstance and opportunity. If there is an opportunity, take it. It may never come again.

> If you want to have kids, have kids. You’ll figure it out. Sometimes you won’t.

The issue many people have with this line of reasoning is that not figuring it out affects an unwilling participant (the kids).

The most common sentiment I hear is that people want their kids to have at least the quality of life that they did when they were kids, and without a reasonable guarantee of achieving that, they will not choose to have kids.

For some, it might be that the kid does not have to work in the farm fields all day. For others, maybe the kid gets to learn how to read and write. And others, the kid does not have to work at all and gets to go all the way through high school. For others yet, the kid needs to have their own bedroom. And so on.

> If you want to have kids, have kids.

No. Kids are not your property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

As someone born to parents who were struggling, I think you should not hold such sure opinions on hypothetical matters you don't actually have experience with.

> don't try to find a girl who will make you happy, find the happiness within yourself and then some girl will find that.

Ok, but let's admit it, this doesn't work universally. I know people who become much more happier after finding their partner.

Also, I have one kid, and yes, I am more happy with life after having it.

Codependent people need someone else to even them out. Being even doesn’t mean being healthy. It means you are getting your fix.

When or if these people get divorced or widowed they will be a bigger mess than they have ever been.

You see it wrongly, there's no fix involved.

"don't try to find a girl who will make you happy" - that's major overthinking. "Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them" - yeah pretty much. Now if you have a super full life with lots of extended family, friends, dream jobs, hobbies, community involvement - sure, you might be happy without girl and kids. But most people need happiness right at home, instead of constantly having to chase it around, especially as they get past college age.

Nope that's pretty selfish to bringing unwilling person (the kid) into a problem.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33301496

>if you are not ok with yourself and with your life, I don't think you want to have kids.

Sometimes what people lack in life is purpose, and giving your best loving gift to others is one heck of a purpose. That being said the OP is going to be in a similar boat in 13-20yrs time (depending on how independent and/or peer bonded their child becomes)-- so finding longer life purpose will become important again, but being given ~15yrs to find it out just might be enough to span the gap.

Find purpose, but don't involve unwilling person (the kid) who did not ask to be experiment in your problems. That's pretty selfish and harmful for to be born kid. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

> Also I've talked with quite a few people whose parents were all about kids - that was all they wanted from life. And these people as kids (as adults too) were kind of lost. Because if my parents only care about their children, what is there to care about in life? Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them? I mean, it is our biology but it's also a vicious circle.

Damn - I've never thought about it this way, but this resonates tremendously with my personal experience. Thanks for the little morning dose of insight.

The wisdom post from comboy is the bitter truth.

This this this.