Ask HN: How to deal with regret of not having kids | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How to deal with regret of not having kids

324 pointsdominotw343 comments

"75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12"

I was one of those ppl that made the decision of not having kids. I am a 40 yr old man now. This was the single worst decision I've ever made in my whole life. My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less.

My life is now dominated by regret every day. I just can't get over that feeling. I've tried many things like therapy, counseling ect. It only helps for a little bit but I am still doing therapy. Some nights I wake up with panic and stay up all night with shallow breathing and high heart rate.

I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and do bare minimum to not get fired. I 've gotten few promotions here and there but nowhere near my potential of where my career could've been. Everything is just secondary, nothing is interesting.

I am constantly triggered by families and young kids. Even reading that post sent my heart rate soaring (apple watch) with anxiety . I just don't know what to do, its too unbearable. I fantasize about things like getting cancer and that seems to calm me down a little bit. Sometimes I fantasize about leaving my spouse, who I love to death, find someone who I can have a child with.

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A few posts here are suggesting that it's not too late. Perhaps so, but the way are describing yourself is worrisome, in a way that I think if you attempted to have kids (either biologically or through adoption), your stress levels would reach new heights that are unsustainable.

You are depressed, anxious, and have lost sight of what you want out of life. I don't know if kids are the bandage here. At the least, you need to figure out yourself before, or at least in parallel, to working on introducing young children into your family.

It's hard to offer specific advice on such a broad topic to a stranger. You've taken the right steps (therapy, counseling), but you have yet to find your inner peace. What do your social connections look like? Genuine social connection is usually highly correlated with happiness. Those connections can give you a sense of purpose (which is part of having kids) and a "place" in this growingly isolated world.

I'd start there, if you have not. Investing in people and in the relationships you have is absolutely critical to ones happiness. I'd be curious to hear more about how you see this part of your life.

Adding to the above: Biological children with your spouse is not the only option. Adoption or fostering are two other. But again, it sounds like this is projection more than anything else and your mental issues are not actually caused by you not having had children.

It sounds very likely that even if you magically had a baby with your SO tomorrow, this would not be the "solution" you are looking for. Maybe it wouldn't be long until you feel the same level of regret over having had a kid, only now with an additional level of guilt.

Raising a child should be about the child first and foremost, not about you trying to resolve your existential crisis.

As I understand it, Mr & Mrs OP agreed they didn't want children; only OP has changed his mind. Unless Mrs OP had the much more specific objection to childbirth and indifference to children in general; non-biological children don't help OP.

> Sometimes I fantasize about leaving my spouse, who I love to death, find someone who I can have a child with.

On the other hand, it's possible that one is simply "depressed" (sad) because one can't achieve ones goals.

The solution, then, is to figure out a way to achieve them.

That is absolutely true. The question, though, is whether the OP's fixation on having kids _is_ a goal, or if it's just a manifestation of dissatisfaction with the status quo. They're at a stage in life where probably most of their friends and family (of their generation) are parenting. It's easy, when depressed, to look at others who you see as happy and ask, "what do they have that I don't?", and in this case, the most glaring answer may be "they have kids, so I should get kids too!".

This isn't to say that the OP is wrong, but rather that in their communication, they focused more on their longing than their parenting, implying that the want of parenting is more important to them than the parenting itself.

Consider also that this thread didn't come from a day's ponderings; it's a reaction to another article about how most of the time spent with children is before the child reaches 12 (as quoted in the OP). Such a trigger could suggest more fear-of-missing-out than inherent regret.

> they focused more on their longing than their parenting

I never wanted to parent (that's simply a necessary constituent part), but I've always wanted to have kids, a family, a legacy, teach them, raise them, provide them a warm safe cozy family environment (that I remember from my childhood).

So far I'm very happy with the decision and 0% regret (only 10 months in though).

A lot of comments here are along the lines of, “how you’re feeling is not really about what you think it’s about.” I think that’s very dismissive. Just because some others can’t relate, that doesn’t mean what you feel is not valid. We are biological beings, and the drive to procreate is very strong. It is existential. Some feel it more than others. I am very sorry for what you’re going through.

I really don't agree. Going from one extreme of not wanting kids to waking up in the middle of the night with panic attacks caused by the idea of not having them? Hell, hints of borderline suicide ideation? That looks like a significant struggle with mental illness to me.

Forty is often that turning point in life where the end starts to look closer to the beginning. You have a lot more of your life to look back at and less to look forward to. We joke about mid-life crises, but they're a real thing.

The OP sure sounds to me like they're going through exactly that, and children have become a fixation.

And if they're struggling with anxiety and depression now, I can't imagine what they'd go through as a parent.

At minimum, they should not be making any decisions until they get a little healthier. First, it's very unlikely any decision they take, today, would be rational. And second, if they did choose to become a parent, they'd be doing so at a time when they're incredibly mentally and emotionally fragile, which is a recipe for disaster.

> Going from one extreme of not wanting kids to waking up in the middle of the night with panic attacks caused by the idea of not having them?

I'm not going to psychoanalyze someone by a single text message, but I also thought it was unusual to swing that hard. Probably the decision was not thought well and hence the regret, maybe the neighbors have beautiful babies and FOMO brings regret, maybe it's a mid-life crisis where we worry about our legacy, only they know.

I can only contribute my experience deciding not having kids. We both agreed to not have them, we're 50 now, the window has closed indeed for us, and we don't regret that decision at all. It's fantastic to age together and be the center of our own little family. What little need for forging a malleable mind is left, is fulfilled by the sporadic visits to/from our nephews and nieces.

Whatever OP does, I hope he doesn't do it on impulse. It's immensely better to regret not having kids, than regret having them.

> maybe it's a mid-life crisis where we worry about our legacy

It makes me laugh when people talk about having a "legacy"

99.999% of people are unremarkable. There are currently just over 1M Wikipedia articles about living people. Meanwhile, there are 7.7B people on the planet. Even if you made the incorrect assumption that all 1M were about living Americans, with the US population being nearly 330M, that means you'd have to be in the top 0.3% to even have a Wikipedia article about you.

Unless you become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or at least a state-level politician, or become a high-profile criminal, you will probably be forgotten entirely within three generations of your death.

It surprises me that some people have a hard time coming to terms with this.

Even CEOs and most head of state will be forgotten in a couple of generations unless they do something really bad or really good. And most don’t!

They might at least end up with a Wikipedia article that doesn't immediately get deleted for not being notable.

Such a worthy goal!

Very true, but I think people associate the word "legacy" more with their children and community rather than their social status in the world. "legacy" is very important to me as I want to have an impact on my friends, family and community.

I might never have a wikipedia article about me, but at least I had kids and they will have kids and so on. Of course, I will eventually be forgotten (I don't know who my great great grandparents were) but if it weren't for them I would not be here today. One of the defs is " something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past".

Even worse than that.

Your children will have 1/2, or .5, of your DNA. Your grandchildren will have .25, great-grandchildren will have .125, then .0625....after 10 generations (about 300 years), your descendents will have 0.000977 of your DNA. After 30 generations (900 years) your descendents wil have 0.000000000931 of your DNA.

What kind of "legacy" are people thinking that they are leaving behind? All traces of your DNA will effectively disappear from all your progeny. You are gone, not a trace. Your DNA vanishes.

I agree 100%. As I got older and my father died and other older family members I realized that I was taking for granted my family and all of the energy around me it generated. The things that made me happy such as working, traveling and hobbies felt like they needed more. Also this is weird but just seeing guys locked up in prison that were the coldest people that ever existed weeping over their kids really got me feeling it was something special.

It is something special. I have a kid now and another coming in the next few weeks. It is both the most time consuming and expensive thing I can do but also the most meaningful. I never thought I would feel this way 5 years ago. It is definitely dismissive to tell someone hey your feelings are rooted in other problems. It is not like OP is longing for a cupcake or something. So I support the OP and if it is really something you need, do it!

Get into teaching. You'll be skint, but happy.

This is the answer I was inclined to give upon reading.

In addition to the importance of a sense of community and purpose (whether derived from children or not), I'd also like to contribute another lens through which to view anxiety and depression.

Things like lack of exercise, poor sleep, nutrient deficiencies, caffeine/nicotine/alcohol abuse, under-exposure to sunlight and nature can all cause physiological cascades which result in depression and anxiety irrespective of ones life achievements or circumstances.

And yet, at least in my experience, when feelings of depression and anxiety are present, the first thought is of life circumstances. If only I had a better job, better spouse, loving children, fame, fortune, I would not be anxious and depressed.

It's all too easy to latch on to a perceived lack of something in your life and blame it for any and all of your negative emotions and moods.

Like most human beings, I struggle somewhat significantly with a few specific regrets from my past, as well as the anxiety of navigating important life decisions as they come up.

When I'm feeling particularly anxious or depressed my mind is more inclined to ruminate over past regrets, or to dread upcoming life events. If I'm not present, I still often fall into the trap of believing that I'm depressed and anxious BECAUSE of these regrets or upcoming circumstance in my life.

What I've learned though is that at least for me, it's helpful to first attribute feelings of anxiety and depression to core fundamental needs like sleep, exercise, nutrition, sunlight, etc rather than to jump to and ruminate over regrets and fears.

I suppose a way to refer to a framework like this would be something like 'physiological anxiety and depression' vs 'circumstantial anxiety and depression'.

I believe it is totally possible to have anxiety and depression caused by issues to do with sleep, nutrition, substance abuse, and for your brain to trick you into believing that you're unhappy with your life circumstances.

This all being said, I in no way want to downplay circumstantial anxiety and depression and insinuate that they are not real. It's vital to have things like purpose, community, and to be generally satisfied and excited about ones path through life.

This seems like a classic midlife crisis filtered through a different lens. My wife and I missed our window to have children as well, but the solution wasn't to attempt to rewind the clock and "hack" the situation. (though that was almost attempted). The key here is to accept things you have no control over and identify the ones you do - and then control those. Meaning can be found in many forms and not having kids actually frees one up to do a lot of things.

To OP: This opportunity can be leveraged even though it wasn't necessarily the situation you thought you would be in at this age. Life is funny that way.

This is a thoughtful and helpful answer.

The key is to find out about yourself first, and only then decide what you want to do. If you have not found your inner peace yet, it is very difficult to make good life decisions.

My own background: self-harm and substance abuse. The key to leaving these things behind was to spend time doing hard work on myself. We all hate hearing this and I hated it too at first, but there is no way for things to get better without hard work. The miracle cure will never work, no matter how hard we wish.

I got a lot out of this Buddhist lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-jiIpcYMZw

Paraphrasing the video: a cure that works instantly without having to do any work is really a person saying "give me a drug that feels good forever."

Taking aside all of your emotional concerns, you should know right away that women absolutely can have healthy biological children at or past the age of 39. Obviously I can't speak for your wife and her specific health or reproductive situation but in general, the idea that "the window has closed" is more often than not totally false. Look into this in more detail with real medical professionals. One interesting observation comes from the article I link to below, which points out that many of the supposed female fertility window statistics are actually based on extremely old information from pre-modern times. Worth reading for a bit of optimism and perspective.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-lon...

noteworthy quote from the article:

"The widely cited statistic that one in three women ages 35 to 39 will not be pregnant after a year of trying, for instance, is based on an article published in 2004 in the journal Human Reproduction. Rarely mentioned is the source of the data: French birth records from 1670 to 1830. The chance of remaining childless—30 percent—was also calculated based on historical populations.

In other words, millions of women are being told when to get pregnant based on statistics from a time before electricity, antibiotics, or fertility treatment."

>Taking aside all of your emotional concerns, you should know right away that women absolutely can have healthy biological children at or past the age of 39.

Definitely check with doctors OP, if this is something y'all truly want. I have friends around your age who are happily playing and traveling with their toddlers. They'll be older for some life events but also more settled (financially and emotionally) than I ever was at my kid's young ages.

Not trying to give false hope, it just reads like you personally decided something was true but that may not be the case. It does read like you may want to talk with someone, it is extremely helpful if only for voicing your ideas similar to here, most therapy folks I've known are very relaxed and just there to listen/help. Best of luck.

As I said in my own post, he and his wife should absolutely talk to a fertility doctor or even several specialists for their specific context. My point was that in general, most women can have children well into their 30s and even 40s, and that much of the claims to the contrary are based on absurdly old information. The link was for a general dose of optimism in case general worries about age itself are the main problem.

There's also adoption and foster care (which can lead to adoption).

We were married (and trying) for over a decade with only an ectopic to show for it before our “happy surprise” was born 6 months after my 40th birthday.

There’s the small matter of my husband hitting retirement age about the same time our Überraschungsei hits university, but hopefully post-secondary in Germany will continue to mostly be living expenses.

You're not gonna read all these comments, are you?

Hope you will still have luck, but in the meantime - sorry if it sounds harsh but seems like quickest way to communicate it - if you are not ok with yourself and with your life, I don't think you want to have kids.

It's like a polish proverb regarding relationships: don't try to find a girl who will make you happy, find the happiness within yourself and then some girl will find that.

If you cannot make it ok with yourself without kids I don't think it's a situation which you want to put them into. Seriously, there are many things that you cannot change about the world and about your kids. Being able to accept reality seems useful.

Also I've talked with quite a few people whose parents were all about kids - that was all they wanted from life. And these people as kids (as adults too) were kind of lost. Because if my parents only care about their children, what is there to care about in life? Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them? I mean, it is our biology but it's also a vicious circle.

Other than that you have some options, adoption, some other woman can carry it for both of you etc.

I wish you all the best.

This this this.

The wisdom post from comboy is the bitter truth.

There’s some truth here, but the fact is we are all lost or deluded to some extent.

The idea that we must perfect ourselves before we enter a relationship with others is common in internet advice and frankly wrong. One of the main ways we heal and grow as people is through relationships. Relationships test us and can be a vital mirror, showing us things that would be otherwise invisible. They are also an incentive to do better for the good of others in our lives. Finally, they give us the chance to heal others similarly, our partners are never perfect either.

Does that mean that having kids will solve your problems? Of course not. The idea that you should be ok with or without kids is also fraught. It’s a question of degree, perhaps being obsessed with having kids is bad, but wanting them and being disappointed in not having them is fine.

There is a pretty wide gamut between "being happy with oneself" and "perfecting oneself".

They are orthogonal, plenty of people are happy with themselves despite being abusive or toxic. It’s a poor heuristic for one’s ability to socialize with others or be a parent. Also, unhappiness can be something people are in denial about.

I think what people are trying to say is that if you want to become a parent you should be capable of providing the child with a good childhood. That’s an admirable goal but answering that question is exceedingly tricky.

> The idea that we must perfect ourselves before we enter a relationship with others is common in internet advice and frankly wrong.

Ok when they give consent like your spouse. The to be born kid did not. Kids are not anyone's property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

To play devil’s advocate to this mindset: life isn’t an optimization game. When you’re being nibbled away at by maggots or a pile of ashes, you will receive no trophy for how you optimized your life in a particular order.

You don’t need to perfect one thing to do something else. Nor does getting your ducks in a row on one thing guarantee you’ll be better off in another.

Sometimes you hurl yourself into the fire and you get burned. Sometimes you hurl yourself into the fire and you figure out everything else because you did it.

I know several once lost and now successful adults who found their drive and focus in the moment they held their first child in their arms. Others who, like you said, are still lost.

If you want to have kids, have kids. You’ll figure it out. Sometimes you won’t. Don’t sit around and wait for the optimal circumstance and opportunity. If there is an opportunity, take it. It may never come again.

> If you want to have kids, have kids. You’ll figure it out. Sometimes you won’t.

The issue many people have with this line of reasoning is that not figuring it out affects an unwilling participant (the kids).

The most common sentiment I hear is that people want their kids to have at least the quality of life that they did when they were kids, and without a reasonable guarantee of achieving that, they will not choose to have kids.

For some, it might be that the kid does not have to work in the farm fields all day. For others, maybe the kid gets to learn how to read and write. And others, the kid does not have to work at all and gets to go all the way through high school. For others yet, the kid needs to have their own bedroom. And so on.

> If you want to have kids, have kids.

No. Kids are not your property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

As someone born to parents who were struggling, I think you should not hold such sure opinions on hypothetical matters you don't actually have experience with.

> don't try to find a girl who will make you happy, find the happiness within yourself and then some girl will find that.

Ok, but let's admit it, this doesn't work universally. I know people who become much more happier after finding their partner.

Also, I have one kid, and yes, I am more happy with life after having it.

Codependent people need someone else to even them out. Being even doesn’t mean being healthy. It means you are getting your fix.

When or if these people get divorced or widowed they will be a bigger mess than they have ever been.

You see it wrongly, there's no fix involved.

>if you are not ok with yourself and with your life, I don't think you want to have kids.

Sometimes what people lack in life is purpose, and giving your best loving gift to others is one heck of a purpose. That being said the OP is going to be in a similar boat in 13-20yrs time (depending on how independent and/or peer bonded their child becomes)-- so finding longer life purpose will become important again, but being given ~15yrs to find it out just might be enough to span the gap.

Find purpose, but don't involve unwilling person (the kid) who did not ask to be experiment in your problems. That's pretty selfish and harmful for to be born kid. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

"don't try to find a girl who will make you happy" - that's major overthinking. "Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them" - yeah pretty much. Now if you have a super full life with lots of extended family, friends, dream jobs, hobbies, community involvement - sure, you might be happy without girl and kids. But most people need happiness right at home, instead of constantly having to chase it around, especially as they get past college age.

Nope that's pretty selfish to bringing unwilling person (the kid) into a problem.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33301496

> Also I've talked with quite a few people whose parents were all about kids - that was all they wanted from life. And these people as kids (as adults too) were kind of lost. Because if my parents only care about their children, what is there to care about in life? Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them? I mean, it is our biology but it's also a vicious circle.

Damn - I've never thought about it this way, but this resonates tremendously with my personal experience. Thanks for the little morning dose of insight.

New(ish) parent here. Two things:

First, the bad news: lots of comments saying stuff like "Don't have kids to fill a perceived hole in your life". In general, the advice "Don't do ____ to fill a hole in your life" is good for frivolous things, but I don't think this applies to being a parent. Parenting is a biological and psychological life milestone. To me it's felt more like leveling up my maturity than buying or achieving something. An analogy is something like going from relying on my parents to moving out and being independent. I realize this step isn't for everyone, but am skeptical about 95% of ppl so confident they don't want to take a step their linage has done for thousands of years.

Second, the good news: my experiences (and accounts of friends as well) suggests that attachment to a child is less biological and more developed than you'd expect. When my daughter was born she felt like a stranger; I didn't know her. The more time I spend with her, the more she learns and depends on me, and the more I grow emotionally attached to her. This suggests you'd get 98% of the parenting experience through adoption vs being a biological parent. You'd miss out on stuff like "o wow her eyes look like mine", but at least in my experience, this has been less important than I would've thought. The big stuff like seeing them learn, their innocent joy, and you 'paying it forward' in the circle of life would be the same. (NOTE: these are my 2 cents as a biological parent. It'd be worth reading some adoptive parent accounts as well). Also, if adoption is not for you, I'd still recommend getting involved in helping kids in some way (education, financial, etc.); again, what are we here for if not to help the next generation?

Well fucking said.

I know your kid(s) are going to be raised well.

I think "helping people" as a general rule is a part-proxy to raising kids.

> Parenting is a biological and psychological life milestone

Allow me to disagree. First: there's no evidence of any change in your body, as a male, after becoming a father.

Second: supposing such a "wireless" change would happen, getting someone pregnant and immediately disappearing from their life would yield a perceptible change even with distance and no involvement with the life of the child.

Third: I personally think there's no innate drive to parent, and only an innate drive to mate; everything else is injected by society.

Not exactly true - they have found statistically significant hormonal changes in men after becoming fathers: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/parenting/baby/fatherhood...

yes, but did they compare to fathers who abandon their partner? or don't even know that they are a father? and likewise to fathers who adopt?

i strongly suspect that it's the act of actively becoming a parent, whether biological or adoptive that is responsible for that change in hormones

Which is probably why they said “parenting” and not “impregnating”

Reading the article... yikes. One more reason not to.

There could be a great discussion about whether male parenting and reproduction comes from the bio/psycho/social drives.

For this context, I think trying to make these distinctions is a distraction. By way of common sense, reproducing & parenting has been a HUGE factor in the propagation of human life (this is so obvious it's kind of funny to write).

> For this context, I think trying to make these distinctions is a distraction.

So basically you don't want to have a discussion that might make you reconsider your belief.

No I just don’t have time to write an entire epistemological defense of “reproduction and parenting is a key milestone for humans”. It should be self evident. If you don’t think so, consider what happens if untrue (hint: no more humans).

You have completely missed the point of all my comments above and took your own tangent.

Birth of the first (and only first) child triggers what might be the largest brain rewiring in males since pubety. Women don't seem to undergo a rewiring of the same scale [1].

To me, this makes sense, given how unusual the new skillset has to be compared to pre-fatherhood life (manipulations with the newborn, deciphering needs, new attetion patterns etc.).

[1] Mentioned in the book by Stanislas Dehaene, "Consciousness and the Brain", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_and_the_Brain

My mother claims that the day my son was born I became a completely different person!

> my experiences (and accounts of friends as well) suggests that attachment to a child is less biological and more developed than you'd expect

We found this too, and my wife felt validated by this article she found recently:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/oct/10/the-big-idea-w...

It's especially not true for frivolous things, go for it unless it will absolutely ruin your health or finances. Why would a nice car NOT make you happy? It might not give you lifelong fulfillment on its own, but then nothing will, you always have to find new goals and work towards them as a journey.

As a stepfather of a child since he was age 3 (age 9 now), I agree whole-heartedly with your second point. I have a very deep emotional attachment to him, and I've never felt like I'm missing out on anything because he's not my biological son. Full disclaimer, I have no biological children to compare my feelings/experience with. I don't feel the comparison is necessary, just adding that in case others feel it is important.

In my case the moment they put my son in my arms for the first time I felt instantly so much love! That tiny human being was suddenly the most important thing of my life!

You're 40.

It's not too late.

You have discovered it is the most important thing to you.

So do it. Do it.

Take the actions needed to do what you want to do. And if you choose not to take those actions, or if you find it too hard to take the needed actions within the needed timeframe, then be content with not having kids.

To be brutally frank, it's likely that one day you will part with your current wife, and then you will have neither child nor wife. Take action to have a child - explain to your wife how you feel - if she wants to take that journey with you, great, if she doesn't then you both know that things have changed.

But act quick, because time is against you. You will be physically capable of having kids for many years to come, but every year past 40 it make less sense for a variety of reasons.

I only had one child, for which I am eternally grateful. I deeply wish I had more than one, for which I am eternally regretful. I left it too late to have more.

Kids are the best thing in the universe, and indeed for me personally, the very reason for living. I wish I had known that sooner in life.

And when you go onto the dating websites, be right up front about your situation. "I'm 40, I'm looking for a woman to have kids with fairly soon." Choose a good and kind trustworthy woman who you think would be a good mother. Make sure you bring the same things to the party. You don't need a perfect relationship. There are many women out there in exactly the same boat as you. Don't spend years not finding the perfect person. Find a good person on the same wavelength, get on the job.

Be open to the idea of having kids with someone simply on the basis that you both want kids - start out separated and then do a great job of co-parenting as a mum and dad who were never "together" in the first place.

Post again on HN in two years and tell us the name of your baby, if you are so blessed.

> Choose a good and kind trustworthy woman who you think would be a good mother. Make sure you bring the same things to the party. You don't need a perfect relationship. There are many women out there in exactly the same boat as you. Don't spend years not finding the perfect person. Find a good person on the same wavelength, get on the job.

To raise kids (in a responsible good manner), you need a long-lasting stable relationship with parents that are trustworthy and on the same wavelength.

OP is currently in a relationship with his wife whom he loves dearly. But regarding kids they don't seem to be on the same wavelength (on one particular topic, they probably agree on many other things), because he regrets decisions they made in the past.

Why will his situation improve by giving up the relationship and becoming less trustworthy? 5 years down the roads, in a new relationship, he or his new wife will decide their wavelengths changed, and it's time to look for someone else. And then 2 small kids will have to cope with the fall-out.

Divorcing someone you love, with the intents of starting a stable relationship with someone else is self-deceit. Kids deserve better than that.

>> To raise kids (in a responsible good manner), you need a long-lasting stable relationship with parents that are trustworthy and on the same wavelength.

Well it would be ideal but lots of kids have separated parents.

What is important is not that the parents are together, but that everyone is safe, the kids are loved, the parents are respectful towards one another. The greater the kindness and cooperation between separated parents, the better it is for kids.

Critically important is that the kids are not exposed to conflict between parents.

If you can get all that right then even kids with separated parents can be pretty happy I think.

However harmonious the relationship following the split, it’s still damaging for children in that situation.

It may be increasingly common and I’d agree it’s better to separate than stay together for the kids but I do believe it has a lasting impact. It’ll affect the way they see relationships for the rest of their lives.

It’s selfish for people in their late 30s / early 40s to rush into having a family because they’re worried the window will close.

> you need a long-lasting stable relationship with parents that are trustworthy and on the same wavelength.

Also this is an extremely western centric mindset. iirc the literature indicates that having 2 responsible well caring adults is a much better goal. That could simply be an Uncle and Grandma. If OP has a community/network of good people then it's ok if He/Wifey are not perfect.

> You're 40.

> It's not too late.

I second that. A (male) friend of mine was 40 when they had their first child and now they have three.

More importantly: 39 is probably not too late biologically for your partner. A lot has changed over the last 20 years for late births.

Find a doctor who's competent and supportive to help you along, you're not the first people to have children at that age.

Turn your regret into a motivator. I've done a lot of different and exciting things in my life, I've lived on three different continents, worked with some of the smartest and most renowned people in their fields, and yet nothing beats the experience of loving your children.

Good luck.

> A lot has changed over the last 20 years for late births.

There's still a lot of risks, particularly of disappointment, but also massively elevated risk of gestational diabetes and Down syndrome.

Everything worth having in life involves some risk - you could have a heart attack or a stroke the next minute, your wife/husband could cheat on you/leave you, the company you work for could implode and go bankrupt, and so on.

What about the risk of forever regretting that you didn't even try? Everyone has to decide for themselves what level of risk they are ok with (I'm not going to do base jumping, for instance :D), but if you want a "safe" life, you have to stay indoors, live like a hermit, and forego all human contact ;)

The point is don't let "I can still have a baby at 40" persuade anyone to delay it beyond their 20s if they have any choice or control over the matter.

> Kids are the best thing in the universe

You hear things like this all the time. I think the people with this type of mindset are more vocal. But it is not a universal truth.

On the other side of the curve:

There are people who love and care for their dogs more than their children. I've heard people say this with honest tears running down their face.

There are people who completely abandon their children for many reasons, sometimes mental illness, sometimes not. Sometimes mental illness triggered by the additional burden of the child.

There are people who literally kill themselves after having children. It's extreme, but it's a fact. Obviously it's not the child's fault, but definitely not "best thing in the universe" for these people.

Children can be wonderful. They can also ruin you.

Very practical advice right here ^^^

Don't have kids to fill a perceived hole in your life.

I absolutely understand the vicious and cyclical nature of what I'm saying, but half the time people feel like you go on to have kids and then discover that feeling of emptiness was just them all along. Having children can just as much separate and ostracise you from your existing life and social circles, and make things worse. So if you do have kids and it turns out you have a deeper depression, it's not the best environment to introduce somebody who needs all your attention, every day for a few years. It's not fair to the children.

You're 40 and you're not enjoying your work. Fix that first. It's a struggle many have, even parents. Honestly, life as a whole makes a lot more sense when you enjoy what you do every day, when you feel appreciated and see value in your work product.

Once you're grounded, you can look at options. Surrogacy might be an option for a biological or semi-biological match. Consider your partner's feelings in this too. Fostering might be the best on-ramp, but you're not going to be handed a kid to care for unless you're in top condition.

If you're setting that as a goal, make sure you consider that becoming happy with life might take a while, and it might take so long children stop being an option altogether. Make sure you don't tie yourself to a post if you're unsure which way the tide's going. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Don't let it get in the way of your enjoyment of life.

Best of luck.

The entire purpose of life is to reproduce. It's not a "perceived hole" it's an actual hole.

No, there are no universal "firsts" here. in my 20s I had no freaking clue what to do at work and generally career-wise. Still had kids and don't regret it for a second. If I waited until becoming at least somewhat satisfied with work, i would have surely never gotten around to having kids. Hell, for some people "fix your unhappiness at work first" may take an entire lifetime!

I don't disagree, everyone is different.

But so is having kids when you're in your twenties compared to having them when you're mid-midlife crisis in your forties.

When I read that you fantasize both about getting a deadly illness like cancer and uprooting your life by leaving your spouse, I think those are warning signs for a depression. It's some very heavy things to be carrying around with you and it sounds really painful. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with such unpleasant thoughts and feelings

I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist, plus this is only a single post on a web forum, so I can't say for certain whether that's the case

I think you need to address the pattern of thought you're describing and that it would be helpful for you to talk to a mental health professional to see if they can provide some relief to you

A first step could be to simply tell your spouse "I think I have a depression and I would like to get better. Would you be okay helping me with that?". Make yourself accountable to the people you love and care about to take the actions needed to get better

Depression is treatable and you can start feeling happy about your life again, I promise you!

I hope you find a way to get through this difficult place that it seems you're finding yourself in

Sorry if you find this question offensive. Not my intention whatsoever.

You have been in the two extremes of parenting. From deciding not to have kids to miserably missing the kids you didn't have.

So, my question is: Is this really about having/not having kids, or is it some kind of existential crisis projected in the absence of kids in your life?

i bet my left testicle and my right kidney it's the latter, but shit man i would really love ot hear her wife's thoughts on this. it just needs more context.

I bet my right that it's a biological clock turned on carving for doing the most important thing in human life. It definetly needs more context.

Sounds like you're projecting something on not being a parent. Try the "what for" game. What do I want kids for? To extend my legacy. What do I want to extend my legacy for? To feel connected to the world. What do I want to feel connected to the world for? Just keep going recursively until you deconstruct it to a point where you see that it's not as bad as all that.

I don't know why, but your story made me think of volunteering. Have you considered it? Might give you a sense of motivation and meaning.

Also, since you seem to be in a fragile state right now, very regular outdoors or not-at-home exercise might be a good way to get mental balance.

I'm assuming that people have a biological imperative to reproduce. That matches what I know about biology and evolution and it explains why people so frequently have kids despite kids being, on paper, a rather poor deal. The "what for" is just "This is my fundamental nature."

I think that you can't really examine your out of a fundamental drive. You can't scratch the itch by asking "what for" any more than you could convince yourself that the fire wasn't burning you by contemplating why your hand hurt when you put it in the fire. Most people just want to reproduce as an end goal to itself.

All this said - I tend to think OP's problem is more psychological / depression as others have commented. If it were truly a strong desire to have children than OP would have simply figured out a way (adoption, in vitro, getting with another woman, surrogate, etc). Instead, it might just be a manifestation of depression - which is why OP just suffers from the desire rather than attempting to fulfill it.

> I think that you can't really examine your out of a fundamental drive.

It's a problem to label something a fundamental drive, because you're implicitly saying that someone experiencing it is powerless. What if it's not fundamental? You think so, but you might be wrong. Let's just call it a desire.

Btw, kids on paper being a bad deal is a bold statement. For thousands of years that was the primary way of investment. Between the ages 13 and 16 a child on a farm would return all investment required up to that point.

And, as for biology, I'd say that the primary differentiator of the human animal is just how flexible it is in the face of desires such as this.

If it's any consolation, I'm in my 40s and I have 3 kids and I honestly have days where my burnout and anxiety is as bad as you describe. I don't think it's not having kids that is your problem, I think you're probably predisposed to having an anxiety disorder and you're going through your mid-life crisis.

Note that I'm not downplaying the seriousness of your situation by calling it a mid-life crisis - the mid-life crisis is real as fuck and it's a force to be reckoned with. I think the trick of it is to redirect that angst and energy into something useful. Rather than wreck your marriage and run off with 27 year old, maybe you should try an entirely new career, or get into volunteer work, or take a 6 month sabbatical. Who knows? In any case, be very careful of what bridges you burn. I'll let you know if I figure it out...

Can vouch for post-40 mental weirdness that is probably the midlife-crisis instigator. My brother in-law, who's a couple of years older than me, went through something similar a few years ago that nearly cost him his marriage.

To some extent, my brother in-law's experience helped me get through mine because I was able to join the dots and identify my mental bullshit as coming from the same place as his, and try to avoid making the same mistakes.

You can 100% have kids.

Not only biologically but also There are thousands of younger 30ish women who'd see 0 problem have a kid with a mature 40 y.o. (rather than a 30 y.o. whos head is not there yet)

Of course you probably wont have the same relationship with your wife but thats your life, not hers. And if you wake up with panic attacks over kids you HAVE to do it or youll never forgive yourself in 10 / 20 years.

And if you feel guilty about reversing your decision to be childless, think that same way that you can give and take back consent any time, you have the right to change your mind anytime.

This is the worst advice to give. He chose not to have with the one he is married to. And you are saying to turn his back on that same person. And have it with someone else!

People change and so do relationships.

Marriage was invented when there was no contraception and life expecancy was half of what it was now.. No one should be miserable for the sake of "being married".

> life expecancy was half of what it was now.

Marriage is between adults and life expectancy for adults was nearly the same as it is now.

I would expect HN to know that life expectancy in earlier times was suppressed due to child mortality.

married people change together. Their relationship changes together.

Invented is such a terrible word. It was a contract. And within that contract was a place for love to grow without the idea the person was going to leave. And within that love was a place for family.

Today some celebrate the inverse. Have family. Then love. Then marry. Then divorce. And leaves little to no safe place for any of the above.

> married people change together. Their relationship changes together

In some case yes. "Hope for the best, plan for the worst as people say".

Marriage is a contract your future self may regret. It may seem like the right thing now but you at the end of your life may think differently.

The OP regrets not having children. His younger self made that decision. He is not too old to go and have kids with someone else or adopt (say as a single dad even).

Go have kids man! If your wife doesn't want to then get divorced. If she does then work together. IVD, adoption etc...

Marriage is a contract upon which every other mutual decision in life is made upon. You need to have a better reason than changing decisions to divorce or annul a marriage. She made that decision too after all and it was made together for each other.

You remain faithful to the contract, or you are violating the contract in bad faith.

Here in the USA we have no fault divorces.

There’s no requirement to give a reason or even have a reason to end a marriage.

Interesting.

Marriage is a contract. When things so intrinsic to your core are being denied, you absolutely have a right to reconsider that.

Marriage is not some form of slavery. It's painful to have dissolved... But very doable if the situation is bad enough.

Now the problem with op, is that it appears he is depressed and burnt-out, and is transferring the depression to a biological drive for children. To do this would be unhealthy for everyone, including any children they bring in the world.

Is it really better for him to stay with her, when it makes him unhappy? At least this way she can find someone who actually wants to be childless with her, instead of risking resentment

Wow that is so superegoistic I'd say any child deserves a better dad. It may also be something else what's wrong, please reflect and try more, and also if you are not already in a trustless broken relationship start talking with your wife about it.

> And if you wake up with panic attacks over kids you HAVE to do it or youll never forgive yourself in 10 / 20 years.

No, that is definitely not set in stone, you may not find fulfillment in that, please that possibility also in mind.

> but thats your life,

No, it is also your wife's and your eventual future child's life, but I'd not take this advice if only for your life unless your current relationship is already broken. The sudden you regret your childlessness, the same you may regret this decision and consequences soon.

This is not particularly egoistic. People change overtime and relationships are formed or broken everyday according to people respective evolution.

In PARTICULAR, wanting or not children is probably the n°1 important criteria to be in a relationship or not. Im not telling him to leave his wife but its an option that is very likely to appear, and also that "staying because of past decision to your wife" might bring more pain to him on the long run than leaving her to have a child. Its a purely rational decision (which of course is not to be rushed either).

People (like you?) seem to believe in the "soulmates for life" dream but practical experienxe has shown me its not for everybody and many people end up miserable by saying in the same relationship out of principles or fear while they had so many good other options at some point..

Choose wisely.

You talk about "not having children" as a decision that you alone made, not a joint decision with your wife. (I'm assuming from the mention of a biological window that your spouse is a woman). I don't know if this is just the way you worded it but the first thing you should do if you haven't already is discuss this with her. Does she want children now?

Others have pointed out that it's not necessarily too late biologically for a woman at 39 and I'd add my own experience to that - my wife had our children at 38 and 41, and we had no issues with either conception or pregnancy. So don't assume it's impossible.

If you are in a place where she doesn't want children now and you do though then that puts your relationship in a very difficult place and perhaps you should try couples counseling if you haven't already. If she's open to looking after children but doesn't want to (or can't) go through a pregnancy then there are other options like surrogacy or adoption which might be open to you. A good couples counselor should be able to help you discuss this in a way which is safe both of you.

With modern medicine, people are having children much older now. My mom was 38 when she got pregnant with me, and I have close friends who are 40 and 43 with newborns. So, the window has not closed.

As far as other people saying that children won't fill that void in your life - they could be wrong. I felt similar to what you describe, albeit much younger than the average new parent, and having a child did fill that need. That said, it brought up a new feeling of regret of having a child too young.

If you don't have children, it's not the end of the world. A child is fun, and I have had many giggles with mine, but I also have missed out on a lot of opportunity for pursuing and exploring passions that could also fill that hole. Given the added stress of and time consumed with children, I don't think I will have another. My husband and I have collectively agreed about the things that are important to us in life, and they are infinitely harder with a child.

All that to say, you know what choice is right for yourself and you still have time to make that choice.

The biggest thing missing in the post is why.

Why do you have anxiety? Why do you want kids? Why would you rather get cancer than not have a kid? Without some answer or investigation of these, we probably can't give you good advice. And these questions should be something your therapist is helping you explore already.

"I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and do bare minimum to not get fired. I 've gotten few promotions here and there but nowhere near my potential of where my career could've been. Everything is just secondary, nothing is interesting."

This can happen to people because they had kids too.

Are you sure? Women can have kids after 39. Maybe not easily, but should be possible until like 45. Definitely with medical assistance.

Is she on board though? If not, you don't need to stay with her. Your goals in life are worth more, and you don't want to resent her for the rest of your life "you're the reason I don't have kids and I regret it always"

True, my wife and I have a 1 year old and I'm 44. She's 42.

After 40, it gets much harder, as almost all women are subfertile at 40 and half of them are already sterile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_and_female_fertility#/medi...

Still worth it to get checked out. My wife is also late-thirties. We consulted with an IVF doctor and he said that she her reproductive system is still similar to that of a 35yo woman (meaning that although there is increased risk, it's similar to that of a 35yo than a woman close to 40). Luck of the draw.

Of course if you're a 40 years old women, you can try, but I wouldn't tell a woman that "she can have babies after 40", since it's a very risky gamble, aside from the complications of birthing and pregnancy, and illnesses such as Down's syndrome, which are much more prevalent when the mother is older.

It's still not uncommon.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/cdc-birth-rates-middl...

This is a statistic: for your life, it's a gamble not really worth trying.

I got married at 45, I now have 6 children. But children , just like having a spouse - as wonderful as they are -don’t make a life. Others have pointed out trying to have children, or adopting, fostering - but you can also invest time in mentoring and supporting. Lots of busy families would love to have a couple give them a date night. Lots of kids would love to have a mentor - really high quality time without a lot of the hardship of responsibility. I know people who are unable to have children who have invested in others and have very rich relationships. It is not the same as having your own, but it can be amazing and deeply fulfilling

Get counseling. If writing this thread was enough to accelerate your pulse you are having anxiety and it will only get worse until it destroys your health.

Siding with this, the OP is above random internet strangers' pay grades. They should see a professional who is actually able to treat medical problems.

Like a friend of mine once said approximately: Having a family or a wife is not the only goal in life one can have.

Some people are made for different purposes than the biological default activity. People can live great lives and never be in an (exclusive) relationship with any partner. People can do great work and advance humanity a little bit. They can be experts in their area of expertise and that can be already more valuable to society than another child.

Of course there are many sources of pressure or stereotypes all around us, suggesting to us, that a family is the ultimate thing to achieve and that we will all be perfectly happy if only we start a family.

A good friend of mine started a family and his stress levels are through the roof. Barely has time in his day to take care of anything else than children and work. So basically work^2.

Many people will also tout, that making a family was the best thing they ever did. However, studies show, that people are not necessarily happier after having kids and one explanation for this is, that it is not socially accceptable usually, to say things like: "Ah getting children was a mistake, I wish I had not done that.". People will paint you as asocial or worse, if you say those things. Also people need to justify their own past decisions to themselves and might really believe, that it was the best decision they made.

Aside from all that, adoption is still an option one can try. There are so many children in this world, who would benefit from being adopted, possibly becoming bright members of society. If you think you can love children, even if they are not of your own seed, then do consider adoption. I have a hunch, that it is not the making of a child, but its upbringing and the work invested in that, that makes parents love their children. It might also skip some of the most stressful times children go through. Of course adoption is not a thing done in a day. There are requirements.

> Many people will also tout, that making a family was the best thing they ever did. However, studies show, that people are not necessarily happier after having kids and one explanation for this is, that it is not socially accceptable usually, to say things like: "Ah getting children was a mistake, I wish I had not done that.". People will paint you as asocial or worse, if you say those things. Also people need to justify their own past decisions to themselves and might really believe, that it was the best decision they made.

I don't think that is true. I think most people will say that having kids was the best thing in their life because it truly feels that way to them. Seeing your child growing up is work, but it's absolutely magical and most people don't see it as unpleasant work. Everything in life can be labelled as work, but just as we agree that working on your own business is a different kind of work than going to an office 9-5 every day we also know that the work that is required to raise a child isn't the same as the work which we normally associate negative feelings with.

Besides, studies have shown that people with children live longer and not only that, people who become grandparents live considerably longer as they get new purpose and life injected into them, so I assume there is somewhere a strong correlation between having children and being happy.

Well, if you ask me personally about my opinion, then I think, that it would be a sad world, if all we could draw some "new life energy" from is children. We are already too many on this planet. Best we find other things to draw new life energy from. For example as a pensioner one could help other people's kids learn stuff. One could work a little in an animal shelter. One could mentor younger people. One could write down ones knowledge in some kind of document, maybe book. One could continue to do a little honorary work. One could try to organize a political discussion group to further democracy. Lots of things pensioners can do to still take part in society and have positive impact.

> I think most people will say that having kids was the best thing in their life because it truly feels that way to them.

That is actually what I wrote: They might truly believe it:

> Also people need to justify their own past decisions to themselves and might really believe, that it was the best decision they made.

I personally would be totally fine with helping my friends and their children out, by teaching their children math or chess or computer programming or something like that, once they are in that age. I could then see the fruits of those efforts, as they deal with school and education. Maybe I can even manage to teach them in a way, that they get good grades and have a great future. They do not have to be my children for me to see fruits of the work put in to raise them. I am not really a fan of having to swap diapers though.

But that's all me and others might be, and likely are, different.

That is kind of the point as well: Different people can have different things in life that make them happy. Children is not a one-fits-all solution.

And just to be clear: It is fine when people see their children as their thing in life. Their choice! Good if it works for them.

I do not think of raising children as the same kind of work, but I do think it is considerable work, which many people get into, without being fully aware, just how stressful it might make the next decade of their life.

https://www.reddit.com/r/regretfulparents/

> They can be experts in their area of expertise and that can be already more valuable to society than another child.

Moreover, judging ones' life through a lense of "being valuable to society" is pretty depressing. Human beings are not lawnmowers, we're not meant to be useful/provide value. Life is much more interesting and mysterious than that.

If your spouse of the same opinion, that she wants kids than there are many options. If she doesn't want kids than this is a tougher problem to solve and I won't be able to advise on it. But let's assume she does.

1. Talk to a doctor and see if your wife would be able to bear a child. If doctor approves and your wife is ok with it, give it a shot. If you wife is not ok with having to go through a pregnancy in that age (which is totally understandable), then try #2.

2. If you are stuck on an idea of biological children you could try finding a surrogate mother who will bear your child for you. As far as I understand it is your sperm and your spouse's eggs are used, so the child will have your genes. This might be expensive, but is a good solution. Again, talk to a doctor about this possibility. Perhaps during the same visit as #1.

3. If for whatever reason, #2 is not an option, there is another option, which I honestly think should go as #2. Adoption. There are a lot of kids that have been abandoned by there parents. It is always heartbreaking to think about their lives. There are of course a lot of things to consider, but in the end I think it will be a win-win situation for all parties involved.

I'm sure there are more options that I didn't think about, so don't think that life is over. Kids or no kids, you will find a way to add meaning to your life. There is no need to leave your wife or get bad diseases, regardless of the outcome.

Just remember that everything will be fine.

Reading other comments now and have to agree with them that first you should take some time to stabilize you life, emotionally. Having kids will be a great undertaking (both before they are born and after).

So, talk to your wife, talk to your therapist, and anyone else you trust. Make sure you will be happy with your life, whether you have kids or don't and only then try having them.

Don't forget, that after your kids have grown up, they will go on to live their own lives and it will be just you and your spouse left. So make sure you have a good relationship with her.

Dude if you have anxiety and panic about not having kids, wait until you do have one. It’s never ending worry and anxiousness. If that’s your reason for it - don’t do it.

Does you spouse feel the same way? If yes, then you have still a chance. If I was you I wouldn't waste time and go to the next IVF clinic and get started. It's not cheap (~10k in total) but your spouse could literally get started with a weeks notice, and with a bit of luck you guys will have several eggs of hers retrieved, then fertilised on the same day with your sperm and hopefully a few embryos growing. By day 5 you'll end up with a hopefully a few mature eggs of which probably 2 (because of your spouse's age) will be put back into her. The whole procedure is super straight-forward and pain free. If you guys don't have any fertility issues apart from general risk of age then your chances are very good that at least one of the two eggs if not both will develop into a beautiful little baby. If you get started today then you can literally have a child 10 months later.

Source: my wife worked on the fertility clinic of an NHS hospital during her training and was fascinated by how easily this whole thing works and how far we've come to help struggling couples to get children.

EDIT:

Sorry I wanted to add one more thing. There are some quick suggestions floating around here that you could just find a new partner. I don't think that is as easy as people say. It takes time to build an emotional connection with someone strong enough for both people wanting to create kids together. You might waste another 2 years of your life to just find that person if not longer.

Also... unless your spouse is dead against children it's just plain disrespectful to her. She is also a human being who deserves happiness and you guys have found each other and if you love her and she is also open to having kids now then you should definitely try to have kids with her. Imagine you have a daughter one day who is 40 years old with a partner that wants kids. You wouldn't want that guy to treat your daughter the way others suggest here. Also, fathering children is a process, we don't like talking about it but there are many things which can go wrong. If I was you I wouldn't want to go through any painful issues with someone who I just met recently. If you and your spouse love each other you can support each other through whatever happens. That is important as well.

On hard constraints: You can have kids at 40 if your partner agrees. If your partner does not agree you need to figure out which one is more important to you, kids or your current relationship.

That said, are you sure you are otherwise ok? What you write sounds like you may be dissatisfied of your current life in other dimensions as well as not just "having kids". Please don't get kids just as a bandaid, if the motivation is that your life sucks and you imagine getting kids will make your life better - because it likely wont.

Speaking from experience - especially dreaming of an easy way out (I wish I had cancer) sounds like you may have mental health issues. When I was into clinical depression I used to dream of getting a disease and dying out. I really suggest you talk to a professional about these feelings.

Like other posters, I think there are other things going on here. Good on you for doing the work in therapy. Fix (or make serious progress on) those things before bringing a child into this world.

It isn't too late, biologically speaking, and wont be for a few years yet. In VHCOL coastal cities it is not unusual at all for couples to have first children at your age or a little later. But if you're burnt out at your job and having panic attacks walking by playgrounds you aint ready.

My sister had children at 39yo and 42yo (her husband older than that). It was all fine and pretty safe. With good medical support, it is not a problem for most women. Also, adoption is a pretty nice thing to do.

Here's a hot take: Having children just might turn out to be the worst thing that ever happened to you. What if your child turns out to have a rare and horrible disease, characterized by constant pain and suffering and where you spend all of your time and resources caring for them? What if your child has a mental illness and is constantly unhappy and hates you until the day you die? What if you and your partner split up and your partner makes it their full time job to poison your child's mind against you? What if it turns out that you actually hate having children and they make you crazy? Regret can go the other way as well.

A lot of parents of children with Down's relate how wonderful they are.

I am a parent of kids with a genetic disease (cystic fibrosis). It is very difficult, and we had to make many changes in our life to accommodate the special requirements. But it has also led us into brand new directions we never would have even conceived of. And, of course, our kids are a constant joy, regardless of the troubles.

Right now, more and more people in Gen-X and beyond are hitting their 40-50s having not had children and it will likely hit pretty hard. I think the best that we can/should do is maybe pass/share the relatable pieces on to the up and coming generations. It also doesn't help that there has been so much environmental poison and dietary trends that have deeply effected fertility, particularly in men.

At 47yo, I can relate... I have been married a couple times, and do have step-children. I sometimes grieve that I didn't get the chance to go through the earlier years with someone. At this point, I'm definitely not in a position to deal with very young children. I think it would have been nice to put more efforts into this while I was younger.

I would suggest finding a good place to do some volunteer work, which can help with getting past the funk and bringing some fulfillment into your life. Maybe seek counselling regarding any particular depression.

My wife and I missed out on having kids. We wanted kids but it "didn't happen". Yes, I used to also lie awake at night. My wife went through the demanding IVF schedule a couple of times. I admire her for that.

How do we cope?

I was a school teacher and now being a tutor has given me some interaction with teens. I am grateful for this.

My wife loves animals. I think our pets have given her something to cuddle and care for.

I think the only bonus to not having had kids is that we have missed out on the pain that friends have gone through when their child has died through an accident or health problem.

I'm getting some Handmaid's Tale vibes from some of the answers here.

Either adopt or figure out what do you expect from life, deep down. Then think about what you will expect at different stages as you age. Remember that you have changed expectations radically at least once. Self-change is a good thing, forget about integrity and focus on your desires.

You will die alone, most likely. Virtually all old people in retirement homes are disappointed by the lack of visits from their offspring.

We all mourn our lost childhood when we lose curiosity and playtime as we age. Having kids is one way to partially relive your childhood, and on the other side you get to be a mentor to someone who will actually listen to you, most of the time. These two things for example can also be fulfilled in different ways than having kids.

A lot of comments here dismissing OP but I’ll say this. 1) it’s really not too late. You’re older than most that have kids but it’s really not impossible. You can have a surrogate or adopt or still try natural and screen for abnormalities. 2) I think it’s quite rude and destructive to dismiss someone who is obviously depressed because they regret an irreversible life choice they made by saying they need to find inner peace. By far one of the most crushing situations in life is the sheer reality that no matter what you do you cannot turn back the hand of time. Telling OP he nees to find inner peace and needs to learn about himself before he can even think of having kids isn’t very helpful. It sounds like he has learned about himself and it sounds like he realized he’s made a decision he deeply regrets and is faced by thag every day. Of course he won’t have inner peace why should he? I think in the long arc of a life yes he’ll need to readjust his internal narrative and come to terms with his life but if he’s depressed because he dodsn’t have children in his life I’m inclined to believe him and the logical conclusion is that having kids can help. It’s not too late and OP should explore all the options out there if he is serious about this.

My wife and I cant have kids. Cancer medicine, they wouldn't give it to her at such a young age unless one of us was sterile. Mine was far easier.

I wrestle with this as well sometimes. I see myself turning into a Picard type, focusing on my work, my mentoring, my stoic demeanor, and being a secret, blubbering mess once a year when I see a Christmas tree in the neighbor's window. Then I'll tuck my shirt down, tell myself there's no time for such nonsense, and carry on.

A trick I use to fall asleep, when it's really getting to me, is to consider that there's a very good chance my hypothetical kid would be a jerk that doesn't like me.

It sounds like you have a lot more going on than just regret over not having children. I would wager that introducing kids to your life right now wouldn't magically fix everything else, either.

To be honest, this sounds like a mid-life crisis. Which is just another way of saying FOMO. We cannot do everything we dream of doing, we will not achieve every measure of success, there are absolutely going to be things you could have done but did not (for perfectly valid reasons!). Some of them you can do later, some you have to just accept are gone forever.

0. Don't beat yourself up. Mens' bilogical clocks tick later than womens'. If your wife wasn't excited about it then it makes sense you would just go along without children until you are 40. Also don't let anyone tell you that kids are just a "want" or something, if children are right for you, they're more than a "want".

1. Get some feedback from professionals about whether you are mentally healthy enough to make important decisions. If not, try to get healthy before proceeding. But the default will be for them to tell you to wait and see, which closes options for you and your wife. If you get the feeling they don't really care about you and they are just giving the easy answer ("another decade of therapy at $100/hr, then ask me again"), seek another opinion or try to assess the situation yourself. Everyone has some mental issues and sometimes you need to move on with your life.

2. If you believe children are right for you, talk to your wife and bring her for counseling. If she's not on board and doesn't get there quickly, consider whether you are really right for each other. You have 40 more years together. Divorces are easier without kids, and if she doesn't want kids, then she hasn't "wasted" her child-bearing years on you, so there will be less pain.

3. If she's on board, go to a fertility doctor without delay, even while still trying naturally.

4. If it doesn't work, then you have to consider what to do next. Sometimes, trying and failing gives you a new outlook, and you'll value the relationship you have with your wife more, and move on with other meaningful pursuits. But also perhaps not, and you may still need to consider starting over with someone else. But there's a risk you will end up alone or with a bad marriage, which is pretty common.

5. Consider religion in your life regardless of what happens.

@OP : Sorry to hear that you are suffering. To give you a bit of perspective - I think couples who have kids will regret some bit of it. There are things that are inconvenient , there will be missed opportunities either way. So don't think that the feelings you have of regret will go away if you have kids.

It's a conscious choice: You can use IVF / adoption other means to have kid(s) but be aware that once you take the decision of having kid(s), you can't really go back even if you feel helpless,anxious etc:)

Signed, Dad of two kids

Since this is Hacker News: Stallman's take on in this:

Why it is important not to have children. https://stallman.org/articles/children.html

If I was using Richard Stallman as a guidebook for my life, that would signal a particularly depressing existence.

100%

It's strange to see you downvoted. I can't understand why anyone would treat RMS as anything but entertainment and occasionally curious ideas. I'd never take serious life advice from him.

Like it or not, RMS changed the world. In my opinion to the better.

No doubt about that. However, he is by far not the only person to do so and have terrible life skills (in the sense that others should emulate them), e.g. Grothendieck, Tesla, Gödel..

I want people to know that this is just 1 guy his opinion and not a fact. Most of his arguments are valid but can also be debunked. It always comes down to opinion, it's very difficult to calculate the effects of creating new people that live ~80 years while not knowing what is going to happen in the next 80 years.

Another opinion is that nothing matters, in the end, our sun will die and and all life will stop existing. So arguing about whether to have kids or not, is waste of time. Do as you like. But then again... What about the journey?

The discussion can go on and on, in the end, it comes down to opinion.

He is influencing smart people to not have kids though so encouraging an idiocracy scenario. And we might need the smart kids to invent new ways out of global warming.

All the kids smart enough to invent new ways out of climate change have been born. They don't matter. Adding more won't change anything but increase the amount of smart kids suffering from climate change.

Did you interview them at the birthing center to find out?

I mean mitigation rather than prevention.

This is definitely not Stallman's take on "this", "this" being _OP's feelings_ or maybe how to deal with regret generally, not whether having children or not is or isn't a good idea.

I would say this is more "why it is important that Richard Stallman doesn't have kids". The guy is a maniac.

At the risk of being overly simplistic, why not go have kids then? If your partner is unable, you can adopts or have a surrogate. If your partner is uninterested, you can find a new partner.

I don’t have kids and don’t plan to. I know my partner is more interested, but not interested enough to actually have kids. I know we love each other deeply, but if they wanted a family and I absolutely didn’t, then love would be to help then find that, even if it wasn’t with me. For however incredibly painful that would be, I just can’t imagine preventing someone I love from something so foundational.

And ya know, it’s the 21st century so monogamy is not the only socially acceptable available arrangement for people who love each other.

You really need to start talking to your partner about this. It’s dishonest to withhold it.

There are so many horrible takes in this thread.

Quit complaining and focusing on the past get to work trying to have fucking kids! Stop wasting time on HN and go start spending that energy to try and get your partner pregnant.

Plenty of women have kids up into their late 40s. This woman had 3 after 40.

https://www.todaysparent.com/pregnancy/pregnancy-health/i-ha...

You need someone to kick you in the ass to get your mind in the right place. I know plenty of women who have had healthy children at 45. Get off your computer and go get laid.

1. Not too late to have kids these days. Lower chances for sure, but not improbable.

2. Adoption is always an option.

3. Become a "big brother" or do some other kind of youth mentoring or teaching.

If your wife is not interested in kids of any kind, then #3 is your only option if you're going to stick together, and maybe mentoring and/or teaching is what you really want to do.

The solution for this is simple; have kids if you want to. There are woman of the same feeling, so you can have a baby in 1 year or like including preps, pregnancy and birth. If you feel like it is too late, 40 yo is never too old for having kids.

Alternatively, you can consider adopting a kid which will give you the exact same dad feelings.

Nothing to regret yet, just do it!

You can try adopting or sponsoring kids. There are literally millions of kids in poor countries who could use some help. Wanting to have your own kids is in some ways a biological instinct. A lot of childless women also feel it very strongly. So it's very natural to have such strong feelings. Therapy can also help in dealing with it.

> This was the single worst decision I've ever made in my whole life.

Trust me, you don't have any idea. You can't tell that until both you and your kids are dead.

Starting from the moment when your wife gets pregnant, when something strange shows up during the examination, through the trauma of birth, then colics, the first major illness when you have to spend nights with your kid in a hospital. If you are lucky, you never have to deal with anything more grave. But this is a random game. There is no guarantee your kid won't become the cause of your biggest worries in your life.

As others have said, if you're in reasonably good health, IVF is definitely an option for having kids. It could be good excuse to get that big enterprise job, as I know SalesForce offers IVF insurance as part of its comp.

Barring that, fostering is a possibility, but the requirements to do so and the ease of it vary on where you are. Fostering is not something to enter into lightly, but it seems to be highly rewarding. I have a friend adopting the child she fostered, it wasn't always easy, but she's very happy.

I am not sure if OP has considered fostering and I think many people (including myself) don't know how it works. The foster parents make a big difference in a person's life and it seems to be quite a different experience than adoption.

Good point about IVF.

Huh?! These days you are perfectly capable of having kids at your age. In fact, it's not just these days, my grandfather and grandmother were in their mid-40s when they had my aunt. If you really don't believe me then I would recommend having a conversation with a doctor.

There is a possibility we don't know enough about parent's medical history. I was also surprised. Based on my current understanding, upper limit has been 45 for women ( for men it was always way higher bar a medical issue ).

Here's an angle to try on - if you hate it, ignore it: Consider the selfishness of your desire. Going by how you mention families with young kids, it seems what you want to do is call a person into existence solely for your amusement and pleasure. To cause someone to be subjected to life with all its struggles (such as you are experiencing now), for 80 years or so, because you want to have fun playing with them while they are a kid and experience the ego-fulfilment of having a kid be amused by you. It can go further: Since you don't consider adoption it seems like you're invested in specifically creating somebody to be an extension of yourself, maybe so that you sort of 'live forever'. If someone brought me into the world specifically by that hubris, saddling me with a life that I have to work to maintain so that I don't experience huge suffering, then I would probably hate them.

1. It is absolutely not too late, very slightly higher risk for autism and a higher risk for your wife, but very possible.

2. There is adoption and fostering, it’s seriously important

3. I’d unpack this with your wife and a therapist and not HN. Kids don’t fix what is broken, they amplify it. Further, if things aren't right, you’re not only screwed up but you can screw them up. ‘Expectation’ is kind of a dirty word for marriages and families, if you’ve made choices and expected things to be different you have to be open to the idea that your expectations weren’t yours to have, there are other people involved and you love them and want them to be what they are and not your idea or fantasy of what they should be. If the idea of it having kids was to live a certain way (travel, have money, etc..) Understand that kids are a never ending life of service, but it feels good.

I suggest removing the heart-rate functionality from your watch. It appears to be crystallizing your perception of your anxiety.

It sounds like a classic midlife crisis. The good news is, we don't have to do all those things our families and cultures conditioned us to strive for. We can be happy without all of that.

I have a bit to say about this.

First, having kids is THE BEST thing I ever did with my life. Your mileage could/may vary.

Assuming you can get your spouse on-board:

1) YOU ARE NOT PAST THE WINDOW! My wife was 40 when we had our first kid. 41 for the second. Many other parents at our kids' school are similar. Some used IVF, others did not. IVF, while unpleasant, is covered by many insurance plans.

2) As others have said, you can foster, adopt or use a surrogate.

If you cannot get your spouse on-board for trying something, then you might consider leaving them. My ex-wife and I had been trying (then 30M, 28F) without success. Our inability to conceive was one of the reasons that I left her. She now has kids with another man and I now have kids with another woman, so it all worked out. I know this is rough, but it is also a possible solution.

Good luck and I'm sorry that you are suffering.

I've got kids.

I had my first kid at 37, so it isn't too late for you.

Having kids DEFINITELY isn't rosey. Easily, the most challenging thing I've ever faced. What you write about anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I've had all those things and attribute them directly to the life choices I've had to make since having kids. Having kids means you are subject to scrutiny as a parent like nothing you have ever experienced as a software developer, especially from people close to you, your spouse, her/his parents, extended family.

I would say: get a life coach. You could have kids if you wanted to, but are probably blocked from it beyond just the circumstances. If you go down that path, you'll figure that why, and even if you don't have kids, you'll find why you do or don't want to be happy.

Was in a similar situation re: biological age, just some anec-data for you:

1) You and your spouse most likely can still have children assuming you two are in reasonable health with no serious fertility issues; age is less of an issue with today's medical tech. My spouse and I had our first child at a simlar age to you two.

2) Sounds like you have burnout/depression/something-else. Consider getting help from a professional (therapist)?

3) For me, parenthood is cool, tiring, and rewarding, but definitely not an endpoint of personal fulfillment. With all the socio-cultural changes of our times, our sense of self, identity, and value should enrich our families, and not be predicated upon society's value towards being a giving/sacrificing parent unit.

OP, my mum was 44 and my dad 49 when I was born - they were great parents and they both admit having me kept them young. I lost my mum this year due to vascular dementia but my dad is still going strong at 89 and in better health than many 20 years younger.

if you think your life is shit now, wait till you have an unpaid second job as a babysitter.

Seriously, whatever you think of kids, one thing is absolutely true: it's hard, it's very hard. Not in a poetic sense, but simply in terms of man-hours you will have to come up with.

Unless you live in a traditional patriarchal society, but if this were the case, you would probably have had several kids by now

> My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less.

Not necessarily. My wife was in her late 30s when we had our (and her, and my) first kid, and just shy of 40 when we had our second. Yes, older mothers are at somewhat-greater risk of things like Down's Syndrome, but both our kids are now in their early 30s, quite-normal adults with S.O.s of their own.

So talk to your wife — and (as Dear Abby always says) also talk to a licensed mental health professional as well: As others have noted, you might well have something else going on that you're interpreting as regret over childlessness.

I know a man who never had kids but wanted them. He runs a martial arts school. He gets to mentor a lot of kids. It’s like he didn’t get to be a dad, but he got to have more grandkids than anyone I know.

There are many ways to “have kids.” But know this: no one outside of you can fix what’s happening inside of you. The feeling of loss and envy you are experiencing may not be what it appears. Often times our brains disguise painful thoughts we are unwilling to experience as something else. This might be a good time to talk things through with a therapist or a best friend or at least someone with whom you can open up.

You can still have children, in a polygamous arrangement. It can be done if you are willing to pay and perhaps travel. Your spouse will hopefully understand. The window hasn't closed, that is an incorrect assumption.

For much of the world, second marriage is not an option.

And it's also not fair to the first.

> My life is now dominated by regret every day.

I am sorry to hear that. 40/39 isn't actually too late, but risks are higher. Adoption is a big deal, and I know many "late bloomers" that have gotten married in their 30s and 40s (sometimes, for the second or third time), and adopted, or had kids.

I never had any biological children, but I married a woman with a daughter, so I have a stepdaughter.

Regrets? A bit, but not that much. It's a long story, but I have extracurricular interests that probably exercise some of the emotions and drives that parents of biological children have.

Some people think you should be grateful that you didn't make the "mistake" of having kids and that it's not worth it. It's the biggest taboo in our society but a lot of parents regret it. For some reason you decided not to have one in the first place and that same reason is probably still true. It feels like you've fallen into "the grass is always greener" trap and only sees the upsides because you think it's too late, completely forgetting why you didn't want a kid to begin with.

As a relatively freshly baked parent, I am willing to agree with your thought process. Parent poster may be focused on kids, but the regret may just be a symptom and about something else altogether. In either case, I am going to join the HN chorus "continue therapy".

FWIW, our decision was not easy ( and, frankly, from my perspective unnecessarily risky, but I am willing to accommodate my partner where it makes sense ). The only real benefit of doing it when you are old is that you go into it with your eyes wide open typically knowing full well the amount of sacrifice needed for it. I don't think having kids was a mistake, but life would have been a lot easier w/o them. Ditto with the dog.

That said.. should the dog die, odds are we will be getting another one shortly thereafter.

Tech job conditions are the problem, not having kids.

Do you want good reasons to not have kids?

- The future for them does not look promising at all

- Enjoy your life and travel anywhere, change job anytime, change location any moment

- Sleep whenever you want

- Use any drugs you want (even just weed is an issue with kids under 18)

- Start any hobby or job any time you want

- Buy an house without be worried to be homeless

- No guilt for be responsible of their life, of any problem they face, any transmitted genetic issue you may find later on

- If you have no family or relatives or friends to make your kids know, share and play with, it's pretty much like not having kids at all

These reasons are entirely on a person-by-person basis. Sleeping and drug use isn't going to sway somebody away from wanting to start a family.

Many people have no kids and still can't simply change their job, location, travel or buy a home.

Some people desire more out of life than the pursuit of a hedonistic lifestyle.

What's your wife opinion on it ? If she wants them too, then it's not too late to try. Yes, there are more risks but the window is not totally closed. If you can't or won't conceive, then adoption is always a possibility no matter your age.

If your wife doesn't want kids, I'm afraid that you will have to make a difficult decision either way. But, you can still become the cool uncle if there are kids in your family: take them to trips, attraction parks, movies,... and offer the parents a deserved break.

Maybe another perspective on your circumstance might help? You talk about your regret as though, had you made the decision, a child would have been a given. That may not have been the case. For many people this is what they have come to terms with.

I don't know if this is a possibility for you and your partner, but if you want children in your life, maybe they are there already and would appreciate you being a bigger part of their lives? Uncles, aunts, nieces, and nephews are amazing. Often times very close.

What do prefer?

Giving up on having kids and staying with your partner, trying to cope with regret. I bet the regret alreay takes a toll on the relationship and the probability is high that the relationship ends in a divorce either way. (Divorce statistics in your region?)

Divorce and find a younger and religious woman ready to have many kids. You might lose some friends and people might turn away considering your behavior selfish. But you would gain a family and that would be your world.

It is not too late to correct a mistake.

Why does she have to be religious?

She does not have to, I am merely painting a possible path in a colorful way.

sry, but the picture you're painting might be rational but I don't agree with it. Just because the divorce statistics might be bad doesn't mean you should breakup, just because he is unhappy now doesn't mean he will be unhappy in the future, same goes for the marriage, just because it's bad now doesn't mean it will be bad forever. Just because I want something doesn't mean I should go for it without looking left and right. You also lose something if you decide to change things. He could just adopt or maybe he would just like kids around him, so he could work in a soccer club, kindergarten or something else part time.

I think this is very very bad advice. You don't fix one mistake by making another one.

OP said that he dearly loves his wife. I think that's marvelous and he should treasure that. Divorce would indeed be selfish behavior, as you recognize. And that's not where you find happiness and a fulfilling life.

(Aside: your attempt to make the suggestion colorful by adding that the woman should be religious is quite weird. For many religious people, selfishness and divorce are not things that make a partner attractive.)

This was one of the issues that brought my last relationship to an end (being 39y now).

I used to downplay it and together with my partner tried to find a way.

Anyway, this sounds like a relationship issue. If your partner does not want kids it's possible that some kind of decision is needed (that's what our couples therapist said which turned out to be real good advice in my case).

If she can't have kids - there are other ways like adoption,...

If this is impacting you as much as it sounds - find a way to get yourself a child!

Have kids, would recommend :-) As far as I can tell, adoptive parents are just as happy as biological ones. And as a guy, you can easily have biological children through IVF and surrogacy. If it's important for your wife to carry the baby and/or have it be biologically related to her, there are medical options for that as well.

Now in terms of broader happiness, you got to realize that it's mostly a physical condition and you can't talk yourself into it through therapy. Having kids is also not a one in all solution. You got to do regular physical workouts, be in nature frequently and maintain social connections beyond your immediate family. All of these things are also important for good parenting.

Do not assume that you have to spend all your time coding just because you used to, you probably know enough that the challenge is gone. Find some other hobby, ideally with your spouse so that you can reestablish your connection and discuss these kind of concerns with her rather than random geeks on hacker news.

Also get a dog, but a calm kind that you would not be scared to have around eventual baby. All in one exercise, nature exposure, hobby, bonding with spouse and a taste of greater responsibility so you can decide if you are up for even more. Take heart, it does get better!

My uncle had a child later in life, such that I have a cousin who's younger than my youngest, so, to repeat what a lot of others are saying: it's not too late.

My sister had a child in her late 30's (maybe 37 or 38), and before she got pregnant was actually spiralling into depression because she was having trouble getting pregnant. And whilst this kid is a bundle of potential ADD energy, he's also very bright and intelligent. Again, it's not too late.

However, fantasising about fatal illnesses doesn't point to a stable mental state, and raising a child, properly at least, requires almost inhuman mental and emotional stability (although plenty of people raise kids with wildly volatile emotional and mental states).

It also sounds as if you're fantasising about a 'solution' to your life, and have fixated upon having children as this solution. It sounds to me (and I've been known to be wrong on every level possible) as if you need to rediscover the joy of living and the uniqueness and diversity of the world / universe by experiencing more of it.

Being able to find enjoyment in life will also make you a better parent by way of example.

This is sad to read. I am almost as old as you - 41, and I had a kid when 40, and my wife 36. The kid has been the greatest thing to have happened to me on a personal level, after we got married 8 years ago. We struggled a little but persisted and eventually got there.

I remember a conversation with the doctor who helped us - when you want to bring a kid into this world, especially when you're having trouble doing so, you have to want to do it 120% - you should never be short on will.

If you are regretting your earlier decision to not have kids, recognize that you have changed, and make the subtle shift in your mind to want to have a child. Dream about the boy/girl and what kind of life you'll build around him/her, and what you and your partner will do for them and with them. The dreams will spur you to action and the action will shape your dream into reality. Good luck.

A lot of people are saying "you sound depressed, fix that before you have kids", but to me, it sounds like you're depressed--like you say--because you think you missed your opportunity to have kids.

This isn't abnormal, some people I know quite well had intense anxiety at the prospect of being infertile, and I know a few others who have struggled with depression when that turned out to be fact. It's a big loss to grieve, so I think your feelings here are valid.

I also agree with the commenters here who say you should check with your partner, and if they're game go see a fertility specialist. Being on the same page here is important: at her age she'll be high-risk, and the possibility of pregnancy/delivery being harder increases substantially, as well as the possibility of birth defects, etc. It sounds abstract, but what this translates into is intense pain for months, and abortions if things go wrong. The stakes are pretty high.

But that said, I wish you the best of luck! The door may not be closed to you two and it's worth checking into.

I sympathise. I left it too late as well. I have some regrets from not being a Dad.

But I also find it freeing: my life is about me. The pressure to breed, to achieve, to do what others expect recedes. Nothing matters. I am not going to pass on my genes, or leave a legacy, or even any footprints. I'm atheist so I don't even believe in any afterlife. When I die, that's it, everything is over and there's nothing left behind. It's very freeing. All I have left is what I want to do in my life, for me. I'd like to build my own house, marry my girl, travel to every continent on the planet, build a successful business. But if I don't, it doesn't matter too much. My purpose in life now is to enjoy it.

I suspect your really strong reaction to this is a symptom of something else going on. I've lost 10 years of my life to depression, so I know something about this. But not enough to do anything but recommend you continue seeking help. And reassure you that this is only temporary (like everything in life) and it will pass.

Good luck with it.

If therapy only helps for a little bit go to a different therapist!

Try six or a dozen, try "weird" ones, just keep going to different therapists until you find one who works for you. Give each one time, a month or two max, but if they haven't been able to help you within a handful of weeks, move on to the next one.

There's a huge variety of kinds of therapy and therapists vary wildly.

You know if your wife doesn’t want kids and that’s now a dealbreaker to you, you have every right to leave. She’s 39, she’ll get over it and young kids aren’t there who will be adversely affected. Yes you’ll go through pain, but <unpopular opinion trigger> having kids is one of those biological processes that is deeply ingrained in our being as you now rightly realize. </>

You can still find someone who wants to have kids. You might go through a bit of heartache with your current spouse unless she comes around. But you’ll get over it and you will have more than enough time to raise a family. And it is your right to do so if you want to.

All the best.

Perhaps it’s a personal thing, but I clearly remember that after we had our first child I realized that I would have loved an adopted child just the same. I wasn’t of that opinion before that, but an honest word if my wife would tell me now that the kid is not mine, I’d probably show her the door, but would make every effort to keep my children ;)

The best time for women to have children is (for most women) probably in their 20s. The best time to become a father is (for most men) probably in their 40s. This is an extremely unpopular opinion, although that doesn't make it incorrect. Instead we have millions choosing what amounts to genetic suicide. Of course this is also their prerogative.

Good luck lifting 50 times a day a 12kg todler while being in non-ergonomic positions and waking up 3-4 times during the night while having a productive work when you're in your 40's.

And then, when they grow up, to keep up with them during physical activities, to teach and show them the way. It's possible, but it's much easier when you're in your 20's.

How old do you think 40 is? My god. Have you ever met someone in their 40s? Are you a child?

40 is different for everyone. I’m in my 40s and don’t think I would have the energy to start over parenting now, but I recognize that there are a lot of fathers in their 40s and 50s who are doing a great job with their kids.

40 is older than 20. You then don't have the same resistance to stress, lack of sleep, muscles regenerate slower, and you often start to have health problems. Believe me, most parents have back problems at some point, especially if you're not sending your child to daycare.

No wonder, armies around the world won't hire a 40 years old, and prefer youngsters in their early 20's: their body is still intact.

I had my child at 41 (I'm the mother), and I see none of these issues, and my son has been over 10kg for quite some months now. My early-30s colleague on the other hand complained of back pain already in her pregnancy.

Age is not the death sentence you seem to think it is; on the contrary, if someone in early 40s doesn't have the energy/fitness to handle a child, they should see a doctor.

(I also got pregnant within a couple of months of trying, as did a neighbour of similar age. Personal biology trumps statistics.)

I'm not saying it's a "death sentence", just that physically, your body tends to deteriorate with age. The situation isn't a binary one: being young, your body is much more forgiving, which eases parenting, especially if you want to have more than one child.

So yeah, it's better to start having children early than late. It doesn't mean that you'll be crippled in bed because you had them late (aside from the fertility issues).

Also, Hacker News is essentially composed of well-off, western people working in white collar jobs. Of course, those people will have easy and healthy lives; I wouldn't say the same for a mason or a cashier, and those people exist.

If you think being a parent is as physically grueling as combat then I'd suggest you either meet some parents or get into some fights because you have a serious misunderstanding of one or the other.

In any case, outside of the extremes there really isn't much physical difference between 40s and 20s unless you have health issues or you don't exercise. I'm 45 and lift about what I did when I was 25. My cardio is better (boxing, muay thai) and I don't need as much sleep as I used to when I was a kid. You don't want to step in the ring with a guy in his 20s/30s because your reaction times are ~80-150ms slower but that has very little impact on your ability to change a diaper.

Step outside, touch some grass, and meet people in the real world.

I have a 1 year old toddler at home weighting 12 kg, so thanks, but I have a direct experience of it. It's a pleasure to be a father, but yeah, lifting him, the stroller, waking up at night, while having to provide for the whole family isn't a walk in the park physically.

I'm really happy for you that you are entitled with enough time and money to lift/box/muay thai/cardio - I personally have to keep the bank account loaded enough to make ends meet, while I'm not at home helping with the daily chores. I did a lot of sport in the past though, I was a competitive rower in my home country, and I kept a very strong cardio out of it.

Anyway, why not a bit of skin in the game and test your theory about "no physical difference between 40s and 20s"? For instance, by marketing a health insurance in the US, where the premiums are the same for this age category? I hear that it's a good business, so why wouldn't you try? https://www.valuepenguin.com/how-age-affects-health-insuranc...

>Good luck lifting 50 times a day a 12kg todler while being in non-ergonomic positions and waking up 3-4 times during the night while having a productive work when you're in your 40's.

Nice to know I'm evidently such an exceptional physical specimen...

Maybe emotionally wise this could be true (in some circumstances). However, there are clear health impacts on the children that statistically increase as the man gets older (eg autism).

Also, if society can convince young men to not leave children, it can help them mature faster.

We are all different.

I decided to not have children and it was the absolute best decision of my life. I would just have hated to have had children. For many reasons, not just one.

I've known it from a very young age, about 13 or 14 years old, and I've never had any regrets whatsoever. Maybe the slightest pang every 2 or 3 years, for about 10 minutes. Then it goes away fast and I don't think about it for another few years.

Best single decision of my life.

Also, the worst thing that a person can do in terms of climate change, by far the worst thing, is to have a child. Far worse than having a car that burns 8 miles to the gallon or basically anything.

But as others have said, this sounds more like a mental health/mental illness situation. You 100% should see a therapist. for sure.

FWIW, I married into a prefab family and raised step children until they graduated high-school when I was about 39. I was "not sure" I wanted kids of my own, to be honest I was somewhat intimidated by small children, so this worked out fine.

It was then my wife, who was then 44 and I had our first together, and it was and is wonderful. The way you mention age implies something that may or may not be true in your specific situation - e.g. 40-45 is not automatically too old. Being older and more stable did make certain things about having kids (again) easier and more enjoyable.

And many young couples who aren't able to have children too do adopt. It's something to consider.

I found having youngsters in the house made us both feel young again. Tired, but young again :)

It's not too late for your spouse to have children, unless they don't want to or have health issues preventing them from doing so. Talk to your spouse. Adoption is also an option if your spouse is open to that. Can't advice you on the future of your relationship, that's for you to sort out.

Nobody has suicidal ideation just because they're 40 and haven't had kids yet. You have depression and anxiety, and it probably has nothing to do with kids. Get on some anti-depressants, and do Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Try mushrooms. If that still doesn't work, try ECT. But don't give up.

IIRC, 42 is around the age where the window closes, at least, that's what my physician told me. Regardless, if that gap has closed, it may be some consolation to bring this up to your friends and relations who are on the fence about having kids. Everybody's chuffed to tell others about how they made the right choice for them. Rarely, does one hear from another with the courage to say "I changed my mind, and wish I'd taken another path", particularly in the having-kids domain. When I hear your comments above and think "Is this suffering rooted in a desire to contribute to others?" If so, consider telling those you love and respect about your choice and its consequences. Especially tell those who have the potential to have kids - and be a support system in their lives.

Pregnancy success is women dependent (egg quality is the problem, and leads to increasing fertilitization and miscarriage rates) and start to drop at the beginning of one’s 30s and gets really bad in late thirties and near impossible in early 40s. Every women is different and some have earlier falloff in success rates. The moral of the story is don’t want until you are 30 to have kids. Have them young and it is easy. Wait and it gets really emotionally hard or impossible or expensive or a combination of all three.

https://advancedfertility.com/patient-education/causes-of-in...

Thanks for adding this additional context!

So impossible that both I and my neighbour of similar age got pregnant within a couple of months of trying at 40...must be something in the water here. Or maybe we are just healthy and have good hormonal status ;-)

Anecdotal success after 40 is real. But the statistical distribution means that you and your friend are lucky. My friend circle has a lot of couples in it who have had fertility problems. Often it isn’t spoken of.

For sure it's anecdotal, I just wanted to point out that at this age it is by far not next to impossible to have a child. I wouldn't rely on it, but it's also not a "1 in 100/1000" kind of situation. There are various sources that are extremely discouraging to women of this age, as if getting pregnant and having a healthy child at this age was somehow akin to winning the lottery, when it is not.

Of course, it all depends on the woman's egg reserves and general health; but there, like I commented in another subthread, personal biology definitely trumps statistics.

I understand that this is very important for you (being a parent has changed me, in many ways) but it sounds like there's something else going on in your case.

The fact that you are getting anxiety attacks (or close to) because of this regret should be looked into. If you end up having children of your own (adopted or otherwise) know that they will make your stress levels go up, and you will worry about them and they will be a source of nuisance and bother a lot of the time. So better take care of that anxiety first.

Even if you end up not having children, living with anxiety is miserable.

So, get that looked up. I don't know you enough to recommend switching to a different therapist, but I can tell you it helped (still helps) me. In your case perhaps something other (a priest, or a coach) might be more appropriate.

Sounds like a classic mid life crisis to me. Although you don’t have a way to actuate your fantasy so you’re getting depressed. Since having a kid (adoption in your case) is more serious than buying a sports car, I’d really suggest seeking therapy first to make sure it is something you really want. You’re not too old to adopt if you decide to.

Take it from someone on the other side - I frequently envy my 40 year old colleagues without kids. They travel, focus on their hobbies, and generally do what they want and seem happier and less stressed out. They have more money and drive nicer cars and have nicer, neater houses.

Kids are a major self sacrifice - you give up vast quantities of personal time and opportunities. It is a large trade off.

>My life is now dominated by regret every day. I just can't get over that feeling. I've tried many things like therapy, counseling ect. It only helps for a little bit but I am still doing therapy. Some nights I wake up with panic and stay up all night with shallow breathing and high heart rate.

Imagine there's 3 giant luggages of your life, full of VHS tapes made out of lead(heavy). You know what's on those video tapes, its every experience in your life. There's tapes of the time you went over your bike handlebars. There's your wedding. Every bad and good memory in your history is in there.

The first luggage is labelled 'the past', this is the biggest and heaviest. >10,000lbs. A collected works of your entire life is going to be big and heavy.

The second luggage is labelled 'future' where every time you imagine something about the future it shows up in there. 99% of the time none of this ever happened. If you have an active imagination this luggage might be heavier than the first one; but generally it's big and heavy on average. Everyone imagines what the future may hold.

The third luggage is labelled 'today' and as you can imagine this is the only luggage small enough for you to handle. It gets heavier through the day but totally manageable.

You get to pick which one you get to move each day after you wake up. Can you imagine how exhausted you will be if you attempt to move the past or the future all the time? You can move only 1 luggage at a time, you can't handle more than 1. Don't try.

You also probably are doing even worse. You probably are trying to haul the past and future luggages at the same time and in so doing leaving the easiest one behind.

Here's how much easier it is to haul 'just today'. You wake up. You're not allowed to think about the past and certainly don't try to be nostradamus and predict something in the future. You may only deal with today and basically as things show up for you to do. You do them.

It's not too late to have children. My sister is 42 and had a wonderful little miracle happen around the same time that my wife (31) was pregnant with my son. She turned out fine and perfectly healthy. You can also always adopt.

I just want to say you should definitely deal with the depression first. Having children is that single hardest thing you will ever do and being depressed will only make it harder. Continue therapy (even if it feels like it's not working - that's the depression - and it's a process not a magic cure), maybe even medication for a bit, start "planning" and giving yourself something to look forward to and towards and that will help with the depression because then your life will also have a direction to go in.

New father AND son of a father who was a foster child (and I have the last name to prove it.)

1. Have conversations with your doctors, 39 isn't too late. Begin the process and see where it takes you. 2. Adoption / Foster care is incredible on its own and you can be apart of breaking a cycle of abandonment and loss for a child. I could not be the father I am today if my father's foster parents didn't show up and give him the care he needed.

Finally, get involved with the children of your friends and community. Before we had our son we were serving with our childrens youth ministry and volunteering to help watch our friend's kids when their babysitters couldn't help them. It's eye opening and something I think every human should do.

My best to you on your journey!

Just to put it out there, my mother was 38 when she had me, and 40 when she had my brother. When I was younger, I babysat a kid who's mom was 42 when he was born. It's not that there aren't possible complications, but the window isn't "closed"

Why not look into adoption? There are many many children looking for a stable, loving environment.

Putting aside whether the biological window has closed for your 39-year-old wife -- it sounds like the decision to not have children is a huge point of regret and constant second-guessing. Can I ask why/when you made that decision, generally? What's changed since then versus now at the age of 40 -- have circumstances changed to make having children more amenable or less tenable now?

But if it's possible (financially) for you to have kids now -- why isn't adoption a possibility? Your post reads as if you were in the final years of life, rather than mid-life, when you have the perspective and means to make that big change you put off until now.

Hi. I know you are going through a lot. I went through cancer two times and was told I could never have children again due to the excessive chemo before transplant etc. It was a very hard time for me mentally as children were always something I wanted deeply.

I was talking with someone about this and he said to me, what defines a child as your son or daughter? Maybe think about this for a while and then talk with your spouse about what reasons she doesn't want a child? Maybe it is a fear of childbirth, maybe she doesn't want to nurse, or deal with a 3 year old. There are many young wonderful children at all ages that could use a loving father and mother.

Window is not closed at 39/40. Of course, risks are higher, but you should consider the balance of risks vs regrets. It's NOT too late.

(says someone some years older than you and who got a 4th baby 2 months ago with a wife same age as yours)

The window doesn't close at 39 for either of you. From personal experience, I know.

I have multiple male friends who had kids between 44-46y. So the window is not closed.

Men can have kids even in their 90s. Their are some documented cases of even that. It's women's fertility which is often the limiting factor to procreation.

I know a few couples that had kids in their mid to late 40s. I believe it was always via an egg donor or via eggs frozen earlier in the woman’s life though.

Men fertility declines slower than women generally. Men are good to 50 or later usually but there are always exceptions. There is rising risks of things like austism but I think all of that is after 40 generally and rises slowly as age increases.

If your goals are not the same as your partners then maybe your partnership has run its course. Shared values and goals is why couples stay together. Money, and kids are two of the big major shared goals and if yours have truly changed then well.

I know what you feel, man! I'm on your tracks right now (although, for a bit different reasons) and already getting scared.

I think kids are possibly the best investment you can make. But I'm always like "no, I'm not quite ready, not enough funds, no decent apartment, no time to have a girlfriend, etc.". Damn... you dug up my own fears once again. If you or your wife are having health problems, consider possible alternative methods. I've heard people had infertility problems solved by switching to healthy food and using tesla-like healing coil technology (really cheap).

What are you even talking about, plenty of people have kids at that age… I thought the post was going to be about being 60 or something. Stop whining and go do something about it if it means that much to you.

You're 40. Times have changed. Most people used to get children in their 20s, nowadays it's probably more 30s. If you really want to have a child, nothing stops you from having one (or two) now.

3 of my 4 kids were all born with my wife being 38 or older. Youngest son born when my wife was 44. 2 of those 3 were not even planned. They're all healthy.

Stop freaking out, it's not too late.

Having kids means:

You can't enjoy life normally anymore. Oh, you went on a european tour to appreciate some architecture? Well that's too bad. Little Josh will want all the attention. You had twins? Haha good luck with literally everything. The only gazing you will do is when you look at the night sky after you've put them to sleep wondering how good it would have been without children in your life.

Having them, or not having them. It is bad either way. Just cherish the life you've had so far thanks to not having children.

> My life is now dominated by regret every day. I just can't get over that feeling. I've tried many things like therapy, counseling ect. It only helps for a little bit but I am still doing therapy. Some nights I wake up with panic and stay up all night with shallow breathing and high heart rate.

I deal with it as follows:

* Everyone is my child, I may have not birthed them, but I can have a parental feeling to just about anyone (person, animal, group etc.) in general. When a chance presents itself to give/contribute, do it.

I mean all the best to you and happy that you found your solution... but I absolutely hate meeting strangers that act like my parents

sorry but this sounds pathological. Why do you want kids? "My job is not fun" can't be a reason, and if you have such levels of anxiety without kids , you 'll probably have a heart attack with kids. There are pathological cases of people (usually women) who are harassing kids out of such misguided 'longing'. Just calm down and think about what is it that makes you believe you want it so much. Is it peer pressure, hanging out with parents , you really like kids etc

It's my understanding that there's greater risk the higher the age, but instead of asking random strangers, I recommend speaking to your primary care doctors and also finding a doctor that manages pregnancies. They can inform you of the risks and mitigation strategies. As far as I know, it is not too late.

Secondly, you should absolutely find a therapist (edit: missed that you're doing that already), perhaps one that specializes in these issues, and also a psychiatrist to help manage your anxiety.

Existential: I am glad you are still doing therapy. Have you talked to a psychiatrist? That may be helpful in your situation.

Tactical: Do you have any family or friends or house of worship kin with kids? Offer to take them out to do something fun - go to the playground, go on a hike, go rollerskating. The best part of “other people’s kids” is you can give them back once you’ve spoiled them.

Check out hedy.org and go to your local library and offer to teach kids to code. All it takes is a web browser.

Um you can still have kids. You might have poisoned your thoughts that your wife isn't an "optimal" age for having kids, but, believe me, you can still have them.

I was 41 when I had my son, and my wife was nearly 45. It's certainly not too late.

I'm not clear if your wife definitely can't have kids, or if she doesn't want them.

39 is most definitely not an impossible age for women to have to children. I know several people who did and even a couple of years older. Of course, assuming "normally" healthy adults for everything else ("normally" in quotes because you don't have to be the healthiest, fittest person to have a successful pregnancy). You might want to consult with a fertility Dr. before, to make sure you do all the right things.

> My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children

There are many women who have had children well into their 40s. Yes, it's more risky at that age but it's not impossible. In the age of modern medicine there's no [medical] reason not to try. However, you should really consider carefully as pointed out in the top comment by luxurytent whether having children will really be as fulfilling to you as you think it will be.

This is not about kids. You are mentally ill in a serious way. The the therapy you have gotten so far is either incompetent or you are so sick that you need time in an institution where your tragedy can be treated seriously.

I know a number of people who chose not to have children. Some have some level of regret but nobody is going through the kind of dysfunction you are.

You have a lot of years left.

(Also, please do not adopt or otherwise have a child until you are healthy again.)

There is enough anxiety here, that if he got kids it would probably just switch to something else. This person needs much better help.

Being unhappy about a bad situation isn't a mental illness, it's normal. If you try to change your feelings while staying in the same situation, you'll just make yourself more depressed. It's better to change the situation.

The severity of the symptoms are what makes this different. Having panic attacks in the middle of the night because he doesn't have kids, and and being triggered just walking around is not normal, it is a mental disorder.

"My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less."

No it hasn't. I just had a baby and my wife is 40. We did have 2 other kids earlier though. But age is not necessarily the issue so don't make that an excuse. If you want to have kids, have them whenever you are ready. Even if the biological clock has run out, you can always adopt if you really want.

Have you actually discussed this in detail with your spouse ?

Hey mate - don't give up. My daughter was born when my wife was 40, and is now a healthy 16 year old.

Failing that - look into surrogacy or adoption. All kids are a blessing.

Do you have siblings with children? Become the cool uncle!

Teach them to properly build treehouses, make their own bows and arrows, do skateboard tricks, handle guns, climb trees/rooftops, do parkour, and all that crazy stuff their moms wouldn't allow. Depends on what you're into, of course.

You will get to experience them at their best, but won't have to stand them at their worst. That's when you just hand them back to their parents.

At age 40, you can still have kids if you really want to.

It sounds like you're burned out at work more than you want to have children.

If you really wanted children like you say, you'd become a foster parent, spend every free moment as a school volunteer (they're desperately needed), get involved in youth sports, sign up for every youth activity at your local church, and so on.

You can mentor and have excellent experiences with children that are not your biological descendants.

From a/my latino perspective ... you (as an individual) are not too old to procreate ... your wife ... maybe.... but if I were you... would try to have a couple babies Now! dont pay attention to the doctors regarding the issue of age and having/making babies...(Nature cannot be wrong) just try and try and keep trying ! the latino way. Buena Suerte.

You can mentor people. You can adopt. You can foster a child. You can engage with your community. You could be a boy scout leader. There are lots and lots of ways to engage with kids that aren't "biologically yours". Technically my oldest son is a child I adopted and I never actually think that he's adopted. He is simply my son.

Volunteer at an organization that serves children and families. Given the trajectory of your wants (from extreme avoidance to extreme regret) probably what you really would like is flexible time nurturing another generation. Many people other than parents may have a special influence in a child's life. Try being that inspirational nonparent mentor and friend, see how that feels.

Absolutely keep going with therapy. The healing journey might take years, but that's perfectly ok. The worse your mental health issues, the longer that journey takes.

Also, consider adoption. Chances are there are MANY unfortunate kids out there who need a loving home. Just don't think of your adopted kid as the child of a stranger. It will be your own child in every conceivable way.

I'm no expert on this but I am pretty sure they can take your and your wife's reproductive cells and implant them in a surrogate mother, so it would really be "your" kid for both you and your wife, genetically. (There might be developmental issues with removing the baby from the woman who gave birth to it, but I don't know enough to comment there.)

Get a younger wife.

Unfortunately, it’s much easier said than done, but I do believe that the best way of dealing with issues is to take action. One action you can take is to look into an adoption. 40 and 39 is very young. There are many countries in the world where you can adopt a child. It will take lots of work, but this is one thing you could consider doing.

It's not too late for either of you. Check IVF. Quality of your sperm goes down with age, IVF can select the better sperm and fertilize with a good egg. Your wife still have plenty of eggs. You can take decisions around surrogacy etc. based on other health factors. But I personally know plenty of couples who are having kids in their 40s

We took family from Ukraine for 2.5 months, mother and 5 years old daughter. We already have a 5-year-old son. Furthermore, we got really attached to that little girl. Afterwards, we started an adoption course. In my opinion, you still have a chance for biological children or adoption, It is just matter of putting some effort.

Donor egg IVF. Do this, and if your wife doesn’t want to be the carrier, do surrogacy.

You will have biological offspring. You will feel better.

The most rewarding part of being a parent is also the scariest: realizing that you will have a powerful and indelible impact on someone for whom you wish only wonderful things.

Many parents aren't cut out for this challenge. But you can embrace it without being a parent - there are loads of ways to try to make a positive impact in kids' lives.

If you get butterflies about what it could have been, perhaps try to have offsprings or adopt. You shouldn't discount adoption particularly if your wife is open. It's not too late, really it is not.

There is true joy to be had by loving someone unconditionally and I have found that nothing else in my life fills me up as my daughter's hug.

Best of luck

Not sure if it helps but consider that you may not have enjoyed the path you didn't take as much as you think you would.

It is possible that you would have resented the inability to work the way you actually did with all sorts of long lasting negative effects.

Accept that decisions made by younger you were appropriate for that person and move on.

You’re wrong, women can have children naturally up to 42 and even after that with hormone therapy. If your spouse says no, you clearly should leave her*(I assume) and find a partner who does want children. It’s not a small compromise to not have kids and the resentment will kick in and you’ll likely break up anyway.

My wife had our first child at 38 and second at 40. Friends have had kids at 44 and 48. Dr in SF said sees a lot of people having kids in their 40s.

It's great unless you or your wife have a specific medical condition you can sill have kids. We didn't need IVF, but have many friends that have used it very successfully.

This is meant sincerely, because I went through the same reflections when i was 35, and the following worked beyond well for me.

Adopt either kids or a couple rescue pets. There are people who will remark it's not equivalent, but you really may find it's a very distinct version of satisfying and wholesome.

I have three kids. I don't get to see them nearly as much as I want to. I live in another state. I moved here to start a business after I separated with their mother about 3 years ago. Now I regret almost everyday. I live in fear of the world they'll grow up in, and I miss them terribly.

Dad of two here. Kids are great in all the ways you note and in ways that continue to surprise. They're also a righteous pain in the ass and generally throw a monkey wrench into your other goals and interests.

"I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and ..." ME TOO!

You can still have kids with your spouse. If she really doesn't want to then break up with her and find a woman who does. There are loads of attractive women in their 30s searching for a man to have kids with.

Disagreement about weather to have kids is a 100% acceptable reason to break up.

I’m a 40 year old male without children. Doesn’t bother me at all. I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

My girlfriend and I had a baby daughter (our first) last year. When she was born, I was 41 and she was 39 (conceived when I was about to turn 41 and she was 38).

I thought we were late and it’d be hard at our age, but she got pregnant not even after a month after starting trying.

So yes you’re not too late.

Think that it might be bad for yourself, but good for your kids because you didn't force them to enter this fucked up world for your own benefit. Speaking as someone who hates being born, and there are countless like me, and you can't know in advance.

Hear hear. It's such an ego stroke for the parents, but I have to live out my life in chronic pain. I make the best of my existence, but never having to go through all this would have been superior. Got snipped in my early 20s so I couldn't accidentally do this to someone else.

Get a second wife. I’m not even kidding, this is an available solution to your problem. You can even move to a place where polygamy is legal to register it. Then you can have a relationship with both wives and support them and have kids with the younger one.

Adopt. My brother was in a similar situation and he was even older than you. It would eat him up. He'd hit the goals he wanted to hit in his career and finances and there was now nothing else to look forward to.

Him and his partner adopted a child. Never seen him happier.

Why not adopt? I have several friends who were adopted by slightly older couples and it was the greatest thing that happened to their life. They see their supportive parents as their "real" parents and are really grateful they were adopted.

It's not too late!!!

Does you spouse want to have children? I dont think it is neccesarily impossible at that age.

My mom was 35 when I was born, and that was over 30 years ago. I think my grandmother was 39 when my dad was born, and that was over 70 years ago. There's still a possibility for conception unless you didn't explain in your post.

39 isn't too old to have a child. Yes, some of the risk factors are higher but it can reasonably be done and lots of people have done it.

You can also adopt.

Talk to your spouse and figure out how to dive in. You were meant to be a father, don't miss out.

Look at the bright side, at least you are not an indentured servant to some lady who got pregnant and left you.

One of my friends is literally paying for the house his ex-wife brings boyfriends home to.

:: shrug :: Things could be worse.

If it really means that much to you...adopt ?

I have 3 kids, two twins. They're annoying. Do you want a couple of mine?

40 yr old? I doubt I am going to be economically ready for reproducing (capable of putting kids in a good school while also sponsoring enough free time for myself) before 50 yet I feel almost sure I am going to have kids.

This message really reads like the Idiocracy trailer. Time and effort that you'll put in helping and educating your children is much more important than them going to a top 5% school.

Children do not fix your life. Rid yourself of that expectation and get a puppy.

It's a very tough scene, especially if you can't handle the fact that once you've see your kid, you realize you could have seen him or her 20 years ago. It's a really fucking tough scene.

A friend of mine became father and grandfather just a few days apart at the age of 50. When my younger son was born, me and my wife were 37. There is a good chance your biological window is still wide open.

Find some way to give back. Cut back on job hours, volunteer somewhere, help people learn software, whatever.

Spend time with your spouse, see if you can given them something they’ve wanted for a long time.

Think about adoption.

First you guys need to talk to someone professional with experience in mental health issues around fertility.

Second 40 is not too old.

There are options like IVF with or without a donor etc…

I know many women who got pregnant and had babies over age 40.

You need to find logos. I can be a children or not. Have you every been involved in any volunteering project or movement (not involving coding in isolation), some cause that help other people?

My dad was 60 and my mom was 42 when I was born. Definitely not too late!

My wife was 40 when we had our first and 43 when we had our second. Both healthy and bright. No windows have closed, but if you really feel like you can't then you should consider adopting.

See a fertility Doctor. Surrogacy is a thing as is IVF, I don't think you're aware of how far these techniques have come. The window for biological children is certainly not closed.

Some really good people have been childless through no fault of their own. And choices have consequences for ourselves and others.

BUT, my religion teaches that losses or failures in this life can be fully made up in the unending next life, if we start making the necessary good choices and do our very best to continue forward. It also promises peace in this life and eternal life (with and like our Father) in the world to come, conditioned on our obedience.

I have high confidence in the religion (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) due to a long list of reasons which I have written, including personal experience, that constitute sufficient "proof" for me.

(With any downvotes, thoughtful comments are appreciated.)

Ok, I downvoted you. Your comment isn't about what the OP asked, it's about your religion.

You could almost as well post this under a "My regrets about choosing JavaScript" post. ("Don't worry, in the afterlife you'll code in Rust!")

Thanks for including a comment. It seems that the OP is looking for both direction and peace, and I hoped to share the thought process that I would have in his situation, which can be (and is to me) a really big help (with addressing possible regrets, long-term important family issues, knowing what to do now, etc).

(Heh. I'm learning Rust.)

Edit: Maybe I should have been more clear: that stuff about the next life includes the possibility of having a posterity and maintaining family ties, which seems directly a possible comfort and help, for the OP, and me.

I understand your point of view. Perhaps any religion would do for the OP?

> I have high confidence in the religion (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) due to a long list of reasons which I have written, including personal experience, that constitute sufficient "proof" for me.

Please take into account that many other people have high confidence in their respective other religions. Do you think they're all wrong and you're correct? I find this absolutely fascinating - apparently you're smart (you're the one learning Rust, not me!) and yet you believe things which to me appear to be obviously untrue.

I can see how what you say would make sense to many people. Many religions teach some good things, and we advise investigators to keep all the good they have, and let us see if we can add to it. There are specific doctrines that I think are unique to us, and we believe that the authority was eventually lost in a great apostasy after Christ and the apostles were killed, and restored later (1830s..) by the visit of resurrected beings (John the Baptist for authority to baptize; and Peter, James and John for further authority), sent by the resurrected Christ.

I have specific details at my tech-simple web site (in profile), and am happy to answer more questions, the best I can, whether here or in email (at my site).

"Families can be forever" and eternal progression in and with families -- I don't know where else those are taught, and yes we do believe the authority is with one organization, not many, that God does things in an orderly way and will eventually make those things available to all His children, even those that died without an opportunity (also distinctive, as far as I know). There is much more. :) And the gift of the Holy Ghost, given after baptism, is a personal guide, teacher, and comfort, for life, if we sincerely seek its influence.

I have learned for myself that it is true, in ways I can't deny, and anyone else can also learn for themselves. Again, more specifics at my web site and I am willing to answer many questions (hopefully the site can be useful and many are answered there).

(ps: I don't guess I'm smarter than anyone else, but there are some things I have thought about and/or worked on for a long time... :)

Leave your spouse and find someone to have children with. This is honestly brutal advice but it isn't fair to your spouse or you to be living with such spiritual attrition.

My brother had a healthy child when his wife was 42. I think it's unlikely that the window has closed forever, unless doctors have told you so because of a specific medical reason.

You can always try 1) IUI (basically a series of options to help your wife getting pregnant with your sperm) and 2) adopt kid.

Please discuss with your wife and work out a solution. Does she want a kid?

To take a different perspective,

I try to remember some argue we've overshot population: https://scientistswarning.forestry.oregonstate.edu/sites/def... , and honestly get leary at seeing how friends are raising kids. One of my friends works with tutoring kids all day and very consciously had a vasectomy after finding a partner.

Why not partner with your spouse on something like ecosystem restoration? https://happenfilms.com/fools-and-dreamers

> we issue a global appeal for women and men to have at most one child

Let's wait another 20 years and see how the results of such a policy pan out for China. They've already back tracked on it (their current policy is 3 children as of 2021) but the damage is done. I'm hoping for a relatively soft landing, a complete implosion of Chinese society would be a humanitarian catastrophe.

Im trying to point out a broader predicament and thinking of the systemic tradeoffs between human impact (in terms of population size but more importantly population pressure), planetary boundaries, and changes in resource availability.

Start with reading 'a good life within planetary boundaries': https://goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/

I'm trying to point out an equally impactful predicament, civilizations don't generally survive sustained population collapses. I don't think that averting a theoretical disaster caused by resource exhaustion is worth creating an almost guaranteed disaster due to forcibly reducing population levels (and it is force whether done through law, propaganda or inequitable incentives).

If "planetary boundaries" are a problem (which I think is not the case since technology can make more use out of less material and energy by increasing efficiency or creating alternate methods of accomplishing the same tasks, but I digress) then we must go beyond them, cowering within them will just give us and our children a slow and painful death.

Hmm, you're arguing to attempt to get to a 'stage two civilization' per the kardashev scale, and while I agree there's all sorts of issues with attempting policy-level change I keep seeing a lot of energy/material/ecological blindness with such arguments to go beyond boundaries.

Feel like our conversation might go along the lines of this conversation between Nate Hagens and Sebastian Heitmann: https://youtu.be/9Y6BvCVKC_E?t=2665

"since technology can make more use out of less material and energy by increasing efficiency or creating alternate methods of accomplishing the same tasks" - I keep thinking we're falling into the 'jevon's paradox' here without sufficient systemic accounting or feedbacks.

It's a worthy goal to at least attempt to complete our transition to a Type I civilization and begin work on Type II, the line is probably quite blurry since any type of space exploitation moves you towards II but is quite possible before completing I. I don't doubt the validity of Jevon's paradox but I think it's implications are not negative. From Wikipedia's article on it " increased the efficiency of coal use led to the increased consumption of coal in a wide range of industries" the key point there is that the increased consumption came from a wider application of the technology in areas where it was not able to be used before. This led to higher output and innovation in those industries which further accelerated the industrial revolution. A modern example would be Moore's law which has improved efficiency in transistor production, spreading the technology to almost every other industry resulting in further increases in efficiency and many revolutions and breakthroughs.

I feel like this is one of the most successful trolls of all time.

The window is not closed.

I am 42, my wife is 41. Our youngest child is 8 month old.

Well, the way I deal with it is I know someone on twitter who shares the half witted insigths he shares with his two kids and think to myself, thank god that's not me.

Ironic as yesterday we had a screaming argument over mishbeaving kids, dividing up the care work, discipline and general stress/tiredness and unhappiness.

You’re absolutely not too late. We had our first in our mid-40s, no complications whatsoever and I suspect we’d be regretting it too if we didn’t at least try.

> My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less.

Hem, not. Not closed, and you should talk with her about your feelings. Today is better.

As others have said, it's not too late for biological children.

But you should also consider adoption. You can love them just as you can love your biological children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

Kids need a ton of help today. Help them.

Almost every year the top request to Santa is ‘I wish I had a dad’

Many dads flee from their kids lives. Mentor them.

Families don’t all look the same.

If ye unto your sons would prove

By act how dearly them ye love,

Then every voice of wisdom joins

To bid you leave them in your loins.

    - Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī, Arab poet, 973-1057

> This was the single worst decision I've ever made in my whole life.

How do you know? Why do you think you'd be happier with children?

If your partner has changed her mind. Its not to late to have kids. My mother had me when she was 45. I turned out completely fine.

Have children with another woman. It used to be common to have legit mistresses who could bear children if the main wife could not.

You can always adopt or find a younger partner.

Sure you can have kids at 40 but I cannot imagine what an adventure is to deal with a teenager once you are 54-55 years old

One of the secrets to a relatively easy teenager is to be very active in spending time with them, and especially listen to your children when they are younger. Hear the fanciful stories and their young adventures and treat them with dignity and respect. They will reciprocate when they are older.

Parents who models ignoring them when small will teach them they shouldn't listen. That comes home to roost when they are older and become assertive of their place in the world.

Another is to carve out family time every single day. They will get wrapped up with friends and other things. You want family bonds that are stronger than ties with ephemeral friends, and that takes serious investment. We always have family dinner and discussions every night, with only very rare exceptions allowed.

It's not necessarily too late, my aunt had her first child at the age of 40. If I were you I'd get to work ;)

As others have said- its not too late. Do it, and do it soon. In 10 years time it probably _will_ be too late.

You should consider adopting. At 39 years for a first pregnancy the risk profile doesn’t look good.

Like many other posters mention, based on your ages alone, it isn't too late for you or your SO.

Take a moment to think about those in the same state of mind as you - but who are single.

Don't have kids when you're both 40, adopt. The genetic risk is way too high.

The best time to have a child is when you're 20, the second best time is now.

I think all those answering should have to disclose if they are a parent or not.

You don’t have to wrestle with the guilt of producing a living being that is capable of profound suffering.

You’re improving the environment monumentally by preventing a new lineage of carbon producers.

You’re bestowed with the privilege of greater freedom to live your life.

There’s always a silver lining, even in the bleakest of circumstances.

We adopted when my wife was 40. Almost 20 years later, absolutely no regrets.

that is not to late at all, my uncle got his first kid at 42 with his 41 year old wife, they even had a second a year later its not to late but you will need to act soon tho.

FWIW, when my sister was born, my mom was 41 and my dad was 48.

Get a dog, far better.

1. A few friends of mine had kids with woman being over 40. Not unusual.

2. You can adopt.

3. Do not be too sad about it. I for one look at the state of the world around me and feel guilty for having kids. Guilty about bringing them in this mess.

Good luck

Adoption is hard, expensive, buerocratic, and worth it.

This one is easy. No kids? Hey at least you won't have to watch them be vaporized in WW3.

Try new therapists.

Just have a kid lol.

Adoption.

In my experience, getting older requires that you also get more proficient in engaging with the passage of time. One of the things you do with your time is make decisions, and as your life unfolds the increasing number of decisions that lie in your past start to increasingly constrain your present and (what remains of) your future. Thats just how it is. People can tell you about this, but until you get there you don't know it.

I don't know the OP, so I'm not going to address them in the first person, but I note that they don't say why they want to have children - only that they regret not having them. So I concur with others here that children might not be the main issue - but rather a proxy for general regrets and sorrow about the life changes that many people start to perceive in their fifth decade, as life becomes more constrained. I don't have good solutions for this, but living with regret is a hard road. I personally found the advice of the stoics useful here: don't try to control what you can't control, and the best way to deal with unhappiness over what you don't have is to try to be satisfied with what you do have. But I know thats easy to say and hard to put into practice. And it can lead you into the trap of inaction.

But I may be wrong. Some people just have a deep need to have children, ans this often transcends "reasons". While many societies see this as normal in women, we perhaps don't talk enough about how men can feel this way too. If this is genuinely the case for the OP then more therapy may be the only way to address it.

It's also worth them considering that actually having children might not address their present regret. I'm a guy in my mid fifties and I did have children (who are now on the edge of adulthood). Being a parent often was, and often still is, a immense joy. But it was also immensely hard in ways I can't adequately describe to people who haven't also done it. Again, until you get there you don't know. So its healthy to not romanticise parenthood and, for the OP, reflecting on whether this is the case for them may be an approach to take. Not easy though, but maybe easier than the alternative.

A couple of practical points. Physically, 40 and 38 is not too late (modulo any health issue) to conceive if the OP and his partner both want that. Its important to be aware of the risks of later parenthood, but very many people do have children at that point in their life. It is also important to be aware of the considerable strain it can put on a relationship. Give some thought to the financial implications too: its a heavy twenty-plus year commitment that will close-off some opportunities, and the cost of post-school education may come along just as you are starting to consider retirement.

We only get one life and I have no good answers. To the OP - I hope you find peace, however it goes for you.

Step 1. Donate sperm.

Start IVF now.

Look at overseas options ie Thailand if you need a donor and it's tricky locally.

[Start looking at surrogacy] - This is hard

Continue counseling. There's something bigger going on, a kid won't solve your problems.

And who knows, maybe in 30 years time you can do it. I'd bet aging might be reversable by then. It might just cost $. I have heard rumors of cloning, also needs $, start with IVF.

You're absolutely not too old. My mother had me at forty. On the other hand, with the current state of the world - and the likelihood it's only going to get worse, should you?

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