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Comment by fayalargeau | Hacker News Reader

> The company’s silence on the incident is a particularly dramatic reflection of a core dynamic in America’s new space race: The unspoken truth that human lives are at play at every level.

???? Does a company need to make an announcement or public statement for every incident that occurs at work?

There are risks at every job. How is this even an article-worthy?

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> There are risks at every job. How is this even an article-worthy?

A sadly large % of the people reading news on-line have nearly forgotten that hazardous real-world jobs still exist. (Vs. office jobs where "fell and sprained wrist while getting out of an extra-comfy wheely chair" is just about the worst workplace injury they can imagine.)

Also, it's SpaceX. Loads of construction, roofing, etc. workers get maimed & killed every year, and are barely worth a passing mention in the local paper.

It's not about the number but about the reason.

There is a difference if a job is dangerous and somebody gets hurt or dies despite compliance with all safety measures or if an accident happens because of safety violations.

Reasonable Assumption: A whole lot of the barely-covered injuries and deaths at various little tree-trimming, construction, roofing, etc. firms also involve safety violations.

I'd imagine they're silent regarding it because 1) it's an active safety investigation 2) legal will be involved 3) it's frankly nobody else's business, seeing as it's a private business

OSHA incidents probably don't fit the "nobody's business" pattern, in the same way major breaches like the one that happened at Uber don't.

Is this meant to say, if it's an OSHA involved incident, it should be made public knowledge?

I'd remove the word "should". OSHA incidents create public records. They are, by definition, our business.

I was not actually aware these incidents were made public record, so TIL. For this specific instance, here is a link for any interested. https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establishment.inspection_detai...

Essentially all public functions that create records create, by definition, public records. There are exceptions, but they're much narrower than you'd expect. You're entitled to demand copies of the records that federal agencies collect, and those records are created with the expectation that they can be produced on demand. Most agencies do a reasonable job of making things overtly public, so you can just download them. But even if they don't, you can just FOIA them.

>”2) legal will be involved”

In court, an apology, even something as simple as saying “sorry”, can be used as an admission of guilt. It behooves them to say as little as possible.

I mean #2 is obviously correct but that shouldn't make the public feel any better. Precisely because there are downsides (including legal and political) for announcing incidents they will only do so if they have to.

> that shouldn't make the public feel any better

The incident was reported to a federal agency. I’m not sure I’d want my medical history publicly aired if I were injured at work.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-the-cabadas-during-this-diff...

The family started a public GoFundme page. I think its clear that it is in the interest of both the family and labor at large to get stories about workplace injuries to the public.

It's interesting to note that the family has changed the main picture to remove any overt SpaceX references.

Workplace safety violations are absolutely society's "business."

> frankly nobody else's business, seeing as it's a private business

Uhh, wut? How many people have to die inside a private business before it does become other peoples business. And how do you know if you've got your blinders on.

>3) it's frankly nobody else's business, seeing as it's a private business

It is however a private business taking public money. If a government was pumping millions of dollars into a company that was producing an unsafe work environment resulting in injury and death (not saying that is the case) but I think the public has a right to know.

I pump money into a lot of local businesses, and yet they never send me workplace safety reports.

That's OSHA's job, not SpaceX's. And I don't think you can take a single incident and use that to determine if a workplace is safe or not. Especially considering the context of it being a rocket factory.

Because openness about failure is indicative of willingness to accept criticism. Doesn't mean they need to accept fault.

Being completely silent on the matter gives the appearance that they are pretending it didn't happen, that they want no one asking questions about it.

So, this basically serves no real purpose, other than keeping appearances and sending proper signals to bored strangers on the internet, affecting nothing at all.

What would be sufficient openness? What do you think they should be saying and to whom? Who should they be seeking and accepting criticism from?

Should Space X proactively issue notice to the media and request for public feedback?

Should they be emailing all employees details?

Should Elon be posting on twitter for feedback?

Among other standards, OSHA reporting requirements:

<https://www.hseblog.com/osha-accident-reporting-requirements...>

Are you seriously implying that they didn't?

Someone claimed that they were insufficiently open and I'm asking what they should have done that they did not

Or don’t want to provide meat for the legal meat grinder.

Maybe they should?

Already most companies do the absolute least OSHA lets them get away with (and often not even that...)

What do you expect them to do, especially considering legal and healthcare/PHI constraints?

SpaceX is not a covered entity under HIPAA, they are under no PHI constraints that healthcare providers are under.

Over the decade I worked in retail and warehouses prior to becoming an accountant, I never once saw an OSHA inspector.

My impression is that OSHA tends to be reactive.

Unless there was an incident or a report of unsafe activity you aren't going to see OSHA.

It gets clicks!

And karma votes :-)

And satisfaction that you are one of those few people who not only care about human lives, also actively fights a billions of dollar worth megacorp.

If NASA would, then why SpaceX no?

Internally they definitely should.

The other dozen poor soles who probably died in work related accidents today don't count as they have nothing to do with Elon Musk.

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