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Comment by michaelt | Hacker News Reader

> British people love to complain about the state of their railways

I find people have a very different experience with UK rail on whether they're travelling for business or pleasure.

People who commute have to take trains at peak time, at the absolute highest ticket prices, take hundreds of trains a year giving lots of opportunities to get delayed, might get yelled at for being late, and at the end of their journey is... work.

On the other hand, my train travel is off-peak, not that frequent, and almost always taking me to a loved one, a party or a concert. Understandably, my feelings towards trains are very different to my commuter peers!

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> British people love to complain about the state of their railways

When British people go to Switzerland or Japan its like they've died and woken up in heaven.

Japanese rail in particular is pure heaven compared to the UK. Trains are always punctual. Trains are always clean. Trains are always frequent.

And that's before we start talking about the amazing food stores that are attached to main Japanese stations. In the UK you get a filthy station full of greasy horrible fast-food stores.

I found it amazing in Tokyo that you could look up on Google maps a really complex set of interchanges to get across town and all of the timings were just perfect. If it said 35mins to get somewhere it would take exactly 35mins and every train Google suggested you’d be on you’d make. It really did feel like magic that everything including walking distances and punctuality were so spot on. It did make it difficult to give reasons if you were ever late!

Plus, it shows the total price for the commute.

The Tokyo subway during rush hour is anything but heaven.

Having spent the past ~10 years living in London, I disagree.

Rush hour Tokyo trains were a dream, people are polite and queue, but they queue so that they're not in the way, the carriages are surprisingly head-roomy for 6'4 me, unlike the shit show of the central line, they're cooled properly, like the circle/district and the stations were almost universally clean and spacious unlike our tube platforms which are often cramped with tiny exits through archways blocked by people filling the platforms.

I'm not saying the London Tube is bad, but I would take Tokyo subway over it any day.

It may be controversial to say but tourists (local or from afar) are generally the worst part about central London commuting, due to the ignorance of the etiquette, especially when tourist numbers can be overwhelming in some parts.

> It may be controversial to say but tourists (local or from afar) are generally the worst part about central London commuting, due to the ignorance of the etiquette, especially when tourist numbers can be overwhelming in some parts.

This goes for any city that is popular with tourists, who seem to forget that most of the people in a city live and work there, and have their own lives that do not revolve around hospitality or entertainment for tourists.

The tube is pretty bad. Many lines have grime floating in the air that deposits on skin & clothing and turns your snot black. Often a very long walk pavement to platform. Frequent delays from suicide attempts because its old so no track doors and the designs of stations are depressing. Overworked and underpaid staff.

> the designs of stations are depressing

Surely this is subjective? The station designs by Leslie Green and Charles Holden in particular are highly regarded.

Gonna dispute pretty much all of that but in particular there are not frequent delays due to suicides.

So, did some research. TFL have not released hard figures in recent years, but it appears the delays due to jumpers are significantly down from their past near-daily occurance because of the installation of "suicide pits" to catch jumpers under many platforms and training staff to intervene when they spot a distressed person on the platform.

Wait, wait- Any rule you can spell in a few words or a link?

- Stand on the right of escalators

- Have your ticket/oyster/card ready BEFORE getting to the gates (and move to the side and out of the way if you need to take time to find it)

- Move inside the carriages

- Don't start conversations with commuters (especially during morning rush hour)

- Take your rucksack off and put it by your feet if it's crowded

- Don't walk 3+ abreast

- Don't run for the train and especially don't block the closing door (there's a train every 2-3 minutes, just wait)

Could not possibly agree more, they are the worst. System would be massively more efficient and pleasant if everyone followed basic etiquette.

Other annoyances;

When you get to the bottom of the escalators don't just stop in the middle looking at phones and wondering what platform you need. Stand to the side.

Observe the queues next to each door position on the platform and join them. Do not just stand in the clear space in the middle. Following on from that, let people off the train first!!

Walk down the platform don't huddle at the entrance to it.

Don't wait for the gates to close before tapping your card. Just tap and check for green light.

> Stand on the right of escalators

This surprised me when visiting the UK.

I actually expected people to stand on the "left" of the scalators - just like how they drive on the left and overtake on the right - but they didn't. They stood on the right.

I was left puzzled ???

Walk on the left, which is enabled by people standing on the right. Quite simple IMO, but maybe that's just because it's ever been thus!

That's the opposite of all other traffic rules in the UK.

Cars stop on the left, which allow other cars to overtake them on the right.

Thanks!

Stand on the right on escalators, let people off of the carriages before you barge on, don't stop suddenly without checking who's about to walk into you, don't run into tube trains as the doors are closing only to get stuck and hold up the train, DON'T HOLD THE DOORS OPEN, go up and down stairs on the left, corridors etc, stay on the left and don't fuck around at the barriers. Have your card ready, your contactless ready, take your kids, cases, whatever through the wide gate. Don't play whatever shitty video you're watching to the whole train and certainly don't subject others to your music taste.

DO ask people for directions or for help, people may look tired, they may look grumpy they may even be those things, but most will be more than willing to help you.

EDIT: Others covered a few important ones I missed too; backpacks off, walking N-abreast so as to be blocking others from passing are a big no-no; you may be having a leisurely stroll, commuters have places to be, whether at work or at home with their families and their feet up after a long day.

Another one that really gets me - when you get on a half-crowded train, MOVE IN, don't just park yourself by the door blocking everyone behind you.

Of course, these are all rules that should be followed by everyone on all public transport. Nothing really specific to the tube.

Please run for Mayor of London.

edit: Rule to add - don't just stand still when you step off an escalator.

Adding to this: Don't jump aboard wearing your dirty working jumpsuit smeared with paint, cement, oil. Also stop loudly arguing with your partner over phone. Get your shoes off the chairs.

That's a great summary!

It's like London, but the overly-compressed people are more polite and the air doesn't get quite so.. thick because the carriages are much bigger.

Also, the trains are on time, so there's no waiting on an overflowing platform for 10 mins of no trains then 30 minutes of trains too full to get onto.

Having experienced both, I'd take Tokyo anytime.

> The Tokyo subway during rush hour is anything but heaven.

I've done that.

Its busy for sure. But it works. Even if crowded, its still punctual and high-frequency.

Still preferable to a London rush-hour.

No public transport system is great at rush hour. Still having used the 'subway' in both London and Tokyo at rush hour, I much prefer Tokyo.

You must be trolling.

In London even during the rush hour you get a seat when you are disabled or pregnant.

In Tokyo you end up pregnant when you enter the train:

https://noisebreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/oshiya.jpg

Based on the fashion and film grain, that picture is probably 30 years old. I lived in Tokyo recently, for 5 years, and saw this maybe 3 times, all at special occasions, such as on the way to a large fireworks festival. I've experienced train pushers in Vancouver during the 2010 Olympics, too. Yes, many trains are uncomfortably crowded at rush hour but I've experienced the same in Europe. Maybe slightly worse in Europe, because at least the train tends to be on time and the ticket machines and turnstiles always work in Japan.

In Paris train pushers are just a convenient excuse for you to ram the idiots standing clueless in the middle of the carriage towards the aisles where they should have gone from the start while pretending it’s not your fault anyway.

It’s nearly as enjoyable as getting someone out of the way so you can get in said aisles yourself and avoid being compressed next to the doors at rushed hours.

Is that still a thing? I never saw any oshiya when I was there 5 years ago.

It was a thing before COVID in Tokyo. Don’t know about now. The point I’m trying to make is that this thing NEVER happens in London. Train pushers don’t exist, so even if it’s not an everyday thing in Tokyo anymore I can hardly believe that anyone would say “I prefer the rush hour in Tokyo”, to which my previous post was the response to :)

Even if the trains in Tokyo are more packed (debatable, but I'll concede it for now), there is more to commuting than that. The reliability of the service, the cleanliness or the stations and carriages, the (lack of) pushing and shoving on and on the way to the platform, the temperature and ventilation of the stations and carriages etc. Tokyo wins in all these measurement.

Fair enough. Overall I agree, the train system in Japan is heaven. It's almost unfair to compare them with other train systems in the world.

I mean, TfL just closes stations to people entering if crowding gets too high, which is arguably worse from a functionality perspective at least.

It's still very much a thing on some lines but if you time your commute right you'll never experienced it.

Train congestion has been falling with the decline in population.

Also, the pandemic has really sped up adoption of either wfh, partial wfh, or commuting during “shoulder” hours instead of the peak of peak, from what I’ve heard.

Population is increasing in high density area, but wfh and time shifting are true

Not to mention that it is absolutely standard for full-time employees to have the full cost of their commute covered by their company

When I lived in the UK, I thought 30 minute delays two days per week were the worst thing ever.

After living in Germany... British railways seem like an enterprise level SLA.

Tickets with a short expiration time (2 hours... why?), hour(s) long delays, sudden last minute platform changes (you need to use the underground passage full of people), trains just disappearing off the screen with no notice after being delayed several times (I mean, come on!), incredibly rude controllers who just seem like they really want to throw you in prison for not having a ticket (oh yeah, that's a thing, take that Brits!), shoddy rail and frequent stops in the middle of nowhere (or 100 meters from your station), trains that make the Pacers seem like Cadillacs (OK that was one time, not sure where they pulled that pos from)...

I kinda see why Germans hate Deutsche Bahn :D

It’s bad right now. In August only 57% of German long distance trains arrived less than 6 minutes behind schedule. 23% had more than 16 minutes delay. IIRC that’s not even counting canceled stops.

Wait till you get to travel Polish trains - 120 minute delay suddenly becoming 240.

It got better as personnel seems to be more friendly than 10-15 years ago.

Train! You were lucky to have a train! We used to run on the rail, all twenty-six of us, no sitting spots, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.

I caught a train in Poland once, trip to Krakow in 2006 - the train froze to the track half a mile from the station at 3am, god knows where with nothing else in sight (may not mean much, visibility was very low), so we all had to walk to the station and wait until another train happened to stop at it going the direction we wanted.

This literally describes my british rail experience. My local trains are operated by DB.....

I loved the Pacers there was something so democratic and comfy about the version with the rows of seats on them with no headrests. Lovely train.

That seat arrangement was because they were converted British Leyland buses.

> take hundreds of trains a year giving lots of opportunities to get delayed,

The problem isn't taking lots of trains. The problem is N. About 20-50% of the trains I take are delayed, and another 20% are overcrowded due to... previously delayed or cancelled trains. If N is <10 that just menas I'm unlucky. If n > 200, that means I'm paying >£5000 a year for trains that don't work.

I based that on [1] which says in "2021-22 Q2" nationwide, 3.4% cancellations of trains were cancelled, 74.3% were within 1 minute of their scheduled arrival time, 90% were within 3 minutes and 98.9% were within 15 minutes.

Which is obviously far from perfect - but good enough that a holidaymaker visiting the UK has a good chance of not encountering any severely delayed trains.

[1] https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/popular-statistics/how-many-tr...

I don’t commute for work but get equally annoyed. Off peak services are prime time for engineering works, cancellations, rail replacements (which aren’t even replacements), reduced service etc.

Off peak tickets are hardly cheap either

I used to do both on the same line (Bath to London), and it ranged from so egregiously expensive that a small group of us who needed to travel looked into chartering a helicopter as potentially cheaper, to a very pleasant and very cheap trip. All depended on whether you were going on a weekend or not.

Even a first class ticket is not a guarantee of a seat on a weekday morning…

Don't forget the rail replacement bus: having paid for a rail ticket, you now have to take a slow poor-quality bus service instead.

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