Comment by rvz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rvz | Hacker News Reader

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Indeed. The worst part is, they didn't give a reason or outline which T&C did they break. He's not the only one. Happened to a left-wing "Lockdown Skeptics" group [0], then another anti-lockdown group to keep schools open [1] and afterwards the creators of Flipper device [2] who recently had $1.3M seized from them for no reason, despite shipping their product.

It is clear that PayPal clearly doesn't care and will kill any business, non-profit or campaign organization they don't like as they won't provide a reason. There needs to be better alternatives like AlignPay [3] which don't arbitrarily ban accounts or seize funds because they feel like it.

PayPal can do it to anyone; left, right, liberal, etc, whatever. They don't care and they won't change.

[0] https://twitter.com/llsceptics/status/1567658400573448192

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/paypal-shuts-acc...

[2] https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1567194641610465281

[3] https://alignpay.com/

> which don't arbitrarily ban accounts or seize funds because the feel like it

"Don't" isn't "can't". Paypal didn't arbitrarily ban accounts due to their opinions until they did.

(Though they've pretty much always arbitrarily seized funds -- even back in 2011 the most common reason people showing up in Bitcoin IRC channels cited for their interest was that paypal had at some point in the past randomly seized their funds without explanation and then stonewalled them)

> they didn't give a reason or outline which T&C did they break

Giving a reason is pure downside to the deplatformer as it exposes them to criticism both over their policy and over their errors. Providing one to third parties could expose them to defamation lawsuits.

Better to say nothing and let the rumor mills crowdsource an acceptable excuse that they can adopt later if required.

> Better to say nothing and let the rumor mills crowdsource an acceptable excuse that they can adopt later if required.

So what would you tell those who already signed up to PayPal, had their accounts locked, and can't access their funds for months and need an explanation as to why their accounts are locked? Wait for PayPal and close down their business?

What viable alternatives do you suggest for those affected then?

Better for paypal, not the victims. To be clear: I don't support their actions, but I think its easier to correct them if we don't moralize for a bit and look at the incentives they're responding to.

There isn't a good solution for people who have their funds frozen that I'm aware of. :(

You can mitigate your risk ever so slightly by being setup to be able to accept bitcoin: it won't get back seized funds but it can make a blockade by commercial actors even coordinated ones less damaging, but how viable that is depends a lot on the nature of your business and it certainly isn't without it's own problems.

I wonder if any insurance policies for small businesses might cover account seizures?

And they did it to the Free Speech Union, a neutral organization which merely campaigns for free speech!

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