Comment by Roark66 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Roark66 | Hacker News Reader

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Seriously... I really wanted to like this project, but it seems everything EU touches as of recently gets worse.

From the webpafe that half of the time shows "Resource Limit exceeded" to a technology stack diagram on the bottom of this page https://openwebsearch.eu/the-project/ being completely unreadable due to bad scaling.

It is very disappointing really. Another example from the top of my head. Here in Poland we have ID cards(as every other EU country) . Those ID cards have to be renewed every now and then (10~15years). In last years an online system for government services was implemented including for renewal of those cards. One could take a photo with a mobile phone, submit an application and pick up a card from a gov office in few weeks time. Unfortunately, EU made a law that ID cards applications have to be acommpanied by biometrics (fingerprints) so this system has been thrown away. One has to physically go to the gov office, scan their fingerprints, apply for a new id card and then go again to pick it up...

Ok, so what happens in 10 years time? They should have the fingerprints already, right? No. They take the fingerprints, they store them only until one picks up the id card and then they are deleted. There are no fingerprint database, they are not stored anywhere. The fingerprints are used only to ensure the same person that submitted the application picks up the document. It makes zero sense, other than to break the previous online system. Thanks EU.

And why the hell the government will keep the fingerprints? So that once in 10 years I save 1h. The benefit is minor compared to bad things that can be done with a fingerprints DB (mass surveillance..)

I'm not complaining they don't store the fingerprints. I'm complaining they broke a perfectly good system pretending it improves security by getting fingerprints, while it does nothing. The fact they collect the fingerprints to delete them when you collect the document (or 6 weeks past your collection date if you don't show up). demonstrates how bullshit this "rule" is.

Our (Polish - and other EU states as I understand it) government is not allowed to store everyone's fingerprints unless they are a criminal. I as well as other people here have pretty strong feelings against it.

> And why the hell the government will keep the fingerprints?

The government already does... just saying.

They just explained that it doesn't (assuming we trust them, of course).

> they are not stored anywhere

They are. They are stored on the card itself, and they are NOT stored in government databases. This is a good thing...

Yes, you're right, they are stored on the card itself and nowhere else so in theory it allows authenticating the person to the document via a fingerprint. I didn't know that. Still I think having them there doesn't provide suffiecient extra value to offset having to go to the gov office twice.

Also, using fingerprints to routinely authenticate people presents a whole new lot of problems. No one voted for a party that proposed such idea.EU simply decided to mandate this and it has to be implemented no questions asked. What about people that have trouble using the fingerprint scanners govs use? I used to play base guitar when I was a teenager. I can't wait to find out how well/bad this tech will work with the thick skin on my fingers.

I mean, do people really want their government to store their biometrics? What could ever go wrong with that?

and they are NOT stored in government databases

...that we know of.

Yet.

Intentional on not at least the EU prevented an insane system where you can apply for an ID card without actually being physically present.

If you're an adult you already have an ID card...I'm talking about renewing one, not applying for the first time. One applies for one in person when one turns 18 (with a birth certificate, a passport if a citizen of another country, or a piece of paper from the border guards if a refugee etc).

Also one needs an ID card plus 2FA authentication(usually connected to a bank account, a physical smart card, or mobile phone) to login to the government services portal in the first place. This portal is seen as a huge accomplishment (in comparison to the inconvenience of having to do every little thing in person, queue for hours etc). It is not just taxes, it is health service, local councils, national(and health) insurance, building permits, basically almost everything one can do in person can be done via this portal - except renew an ID card since the stupid EU rule came in force...

You still have to apparently go in person to pick it up, how is that an insane system? Now you have to go twice.

edit: I mean you can renew a US passport purely by mail without ever interacting with anyone and I haven't heard of massive issues caused by that.

so your complaints are: the webpage announcing this news isn't perfect, and the (well-known for being incompetent, corrupt and anti-EU) Polish government has implemented an EU policy poorly?

haha, very funny. I think you are 100% correct if we invert every statement you made. Out of curiosity, how would you implemnt this "policy" that it wouldn't be "implemented poorly"?

As for being corrupt and anti-EU, I have to say in recent decade at least there has been no other group of politicians more incompetent, corrupt and anti-EU over the EU commision itself. From the botched/corrupt "green new deal" that resulted in complete dependency on Russian hydrocarbons and resulted in another war in Europe, through the "pay Turkey for the problem to go away" mediterran refugee "solution", to complete ineptitude at the first 6 months of the pandemic and basically leaving Italy on its own, culminating in illegal witholding of funds to member states that elected parties opposed to the current option in Brussels.

However, what truly destroys EU is not even the above, but the lack of respect for the rule of law amongst the top officials. They have their goals and no matter what, they will do anything to reach them. For example they want more integration and a federal state. They proposed it fairly some years ago as an EU-Constitution and it was demolished in referendums. Instead of giving up, hearing the democratic choice and going the direction the sovereign(the people) told them to they then proceeded to implement it another way over people's heads(It was supposed to be implemented in the treaty od Lisbon). However, those treaties have to be unanimous, and some countries didn't want to essentially be ruled by the biggest countries so it got watered down back then. Then they realised it is impossible to implement this goal in accordance with the rule of law, so what they are trying to do now is twofold. First, throw out unanimous voting in favor of majority vote so smaller country objections can be disregarded. Second, bully countries that disagree by illegal witholding of funds.

We're very near the end of the EU, and it does make me sad because I still believe in the ideas that led to it in the first place: free market for goods, travel and work, shared values and work towards common goals between member states - not bully eachother or sell other member's state's security for financial gain.

At least in my generation 10 years ago I would think 95% people would consider themselves very pro-EU, now, unless the current political class GTFO promptly I don't see EU being a thing in next 10 years.

did you notice that no one chimed in to say "yeah we have this same problem in [my EU country] too!"? the reason for that is that - as usual when people are criticising the EU - it is in fact your government's fault, and your politicians/news media/nationalist friends are using the EU as a scapegoat for their own (nation's) incompetence/corruption

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