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socialismisok

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Parent in jail can lead to state paid CPS services. So reporting them really is a solution.

So basically debtors prisons again? That's the solution you propose?

Shoplifting is shoplifting regardless of the products being stolen.

Correct, it's still theft. But theft isn't always morally unjustified.

Or are you here telling me Robin Hood was the villain?

Theft is always unjustified

So Robin Hood, being a famous thief, was doing something immoral?

I guess I disagree. I don't see him as the villain.

Also, runaway slaves in antebellum south were considered property, and people helping them escape were sometimes tried (and hanged) as thieves.

And you must absolutely hate going through artist alleys at conventions, as IP theft is everywhere!

Oh please. It doesn't matter if I yelled my face of, rung a fucking klaxon and a search light at the person. If they run, the store is going to do jack shit about it because theft is cheaper than a workplace injury.

And if you had a baby that you cannot feed, apply for WIC or whatever. Don't steal.

You ever applied for food stamps? I have. If your kids are hungry right now, you aren't getting WIC instantly. And you ever live on $50 month for food? I have, it's not easy. I guarantee you that getting nutritionally sound meals prepped on that kind of benefit is near impossible.

If your kids are hungry, you are a failure of a human being and I don't want to have anything to do with you.

That seems unnecessarily harsh to me. Sometimes you get in to a car accident or develop cancer when you don't have a support network around. Sometimes life happens.

It's not a failure to need help.

Those goods are just as capable of being fenced as any other, and we already have social safety net programs for people who actually need them but can't afford them.

13.5 million household in America were not able to secure enough food to meet their needs last year.

That's about 10%, or about 30,000,000 people.

If we had social safety net programs that solved food insecurity, I'd think different. But when one in every ten people can't get enough food? I'd say we don't really have safety nets or of we do they have huge holes in them.

One in ten _say_ they can't get enough food.

Good call. Given the stigma and shame in the US associated with being poor, that number probably does undercount people who skipped meals but didn't want to admit it.

Really, you don't think there's organized crime around those items too?

And even if not that particular case, it's just ok to do that? Yeah, why do we have prices on those things anyway.

Ok, "socialismisok"...

I'd wager almost all shoplifting has nothing to do with organized crime. You'll get the occasional junkie trying to steal and then sell something moderately expensive like laundry detergent, but mostly it's individuals taking a crime of opportunity for themselves. At least it seemed that way when I worked in a grocery store for a while based off our inventory and security.

A couple blatant alcohol grab and runs by homeless alcoholics, a couple small luxury items like a nicer cut of meat that someone didn't want to pay for, small items like candies or toys, and a couple necessities or staples like loaves of bread (and I do feel bad for anyone stealing cheap bread).

If someone is desperate enough to steal food for their child, I'd rather have Kroger write off the loss than see a kid go hungry.

I can't bring myself to think that the other outcome (Kroger saves $3, child good hungry) is the just outcome.

Should we have great social safety systems that prevent anyone from going hungry? Yes. Do we? No.

So in the absence of support and safety nets, I'm just not going to fault anyone who is dealing with the stress of "my child is starving but I can't afford food" and decides to pocket a couple containers of mashed carrots and peas.

Every state has support for children, pretty much every largish church will as well, along with thousands of charities. Children are the least likely people to be not have help. It is possible a parent doesn't know about these resources but they are there.

I feel the same way about your personal belongings, socialismisok. What does it hurt if someone steals your catalytic converter once in a while, or smashes your window in, or mugs you. Small inconveniences, oh well. They probably needed it more than you did. I volunteer your stuff to be donated to such charitable causes.

I've had stuff stolen. Shit sucks.

You know what though? Whoever stole that shit was in more desperate situation than I'm in. Insurance covered it, I moved on. Hardest part was the emotional burden of having someone in your stuff.

Now, Kroger? Kroger doesn't have feelings. They won't care because they can't care. They write off the loss, same as if an employee broke a bunch of jars or as if they couldn't sell the product before it expired.

Again, I'm not saying all theft is good. I'm saying some theft might not be inexcusable.

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