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Comment by naet | Hacker News Reader

I love using cash.

Sometimes I don't when my local ATM is down (which seems to happen so often...), but when I can it feels much better to me. No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam, don't have to give up my ATM pin, no worrying about my phone running out of charge, able to give it away freely to anyone in need without setting up a digital transfer, the old taco truck still only takes cash, etc.

I will be sad when cash starts to be less accepted. Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area.

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> No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam

I don't understand. How are you not exposed to this type of skimmer when it only attacks those who use cash ATMs, like what you do?

In my country (Eastern Europe), you can get a code from the bank's smartphone app, to get cash from the ATM, without using a card or pin. Helps with potential skimmer attacks.

In Australia, day to day you can get up to $100 cash out at the grocery store. I think this is safer than the ATM since the readers are generally in use all the time so there is less chance that they have been tampered with. At least, I've never heard of someone getting their card details stolen at the supermarket. And I have heard plenty of ATMs around me being compromised.

Target?

Not exactly a grocery story, but it wasn't a single skimmer either.

> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area.

Is that even legal?

It must be in my area, and it seems to be legal at the federal level in the USA.

"There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise."

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

It may be illegal to refuse cash as payment for an existing debt but businesses are free to choose how (and with whom) they conduct business, including which forms of payment they accept.

That only really applies if you pay before eating. If you eat before paying, that is an outstanding debt, and they have to take cash to settle it.

Well a restaurant bill is in some sense a debt for the food that was already provided.

I'd love to see what happens if I eat a meal, then say, "Sorry, I only have cash."

They can be mad about it, but I don't think I'm breaking any laws by not having their preferred payment method to pay that debt, right? They can even ban me from the restaurant but—for that meal—I can't get charged with theft of services (or whatever the innkeeper laws are that relate to this situation)

Might depend on if there was clear notification before ordering your meal that they don't accept cash. In that case, you've incurred a debt that you knew you would be unable to pay. That might be some sort of fraud but it probably varies by jurisdiction.

They must either take the cash or forgive the debt, no matter what the sign says. If they don't want cash they shouldn't have served you food until they got their preferred payment method, in which case you could just walk out without having eaten and owe them nothing. Since they decided to serve you, then you now owe them money, which you must be allowed to pay back in cash with US currency. This rule is written on the face of the currency itself.

Notification doesn't hold more weight than what is written on your dollar bill:

"All debts, public or private"

The ones I’ve seen that don’t take cash are fast food where you don’t get your meal until after paying. Sweetgreen, for example.

For sure, and I think even a cashless restaurant would take cash rather than let you leave for free. Presumably the ones truly refusing cash are the type that take payment before you incur any food debt.

Probably. Although they may not really be setup to handle it and presumably can’t make change.

There are restaurants where you do not receive the food until after you pay.

And with those restaurants you don’t have a “debt”, so they don’t have to accept cash (unless your state has a law about it).

I wouldn't necessarily describe fast-food chains as "restaurants"...

Interesting, thank you

It isn't in NYC[1]. We have some local businesses that ignore the law, and are (supposedly) being fined daily for continuing to violate it[2]. I'm not sure if the city has managed to collect yet.

[1]: https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3...

[2]: https://nypost.com/2021/12/04/nyc-businesses-told-to-pay-up-...

Broadly speaking, doing business on the internet doesn’t have a separate set of laws. Many online retailers don’t accept cash.

Some do. Some you can go in person to pay for the good to be delivered online. Then, some (mullvad) you can mail cash. Don't, in America, they steal it. But you can.

Yes, if they are pay up front establishments.

Its illegal in Massachusetts

And yet there are restaurants that do it anyway.

I don’t eat at those restaurants. I like cash, too.

> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area.

Wow. This year in my area, a lot of the restaurants started charging 3% extra if you DON'T use cash.

And generally, in my state of Montana, there are still restaurants that won't accept credit cards at all.

> No digital records

Is it really no digital records, or just fewer/obfuscated digital records? I would think that the ATM keeps tracks of the serial numbers of the notes it gave you?

there is no digital record on my Google Pay, because it is a tokenized system on top of a tokenized system

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