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Comment by woodruffw | Hacker News Reader

Mudge was a DARPA PM; that's a significant position in the sense that he led DARPA-funded research programs, but I don't think it's one that actually requires a clearance.

Source: currently do DARPA-funded research. No PM has ever mentioned having a clearance to me, and the work itself is entirely uncleared.

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To be fair, marshray did not mention clearance, just that some skeletons would be looked for. Getting cleared is not the only time or the only way the federal government does that sort of thing.

Sure. I actually wouldn’t doubt that Mudge was already a known entity to USG. I just wanted to dispel some of the clearance voodoo that comes along with “significant position within the Department of Defense.”

In his most recent testimony, Mudge mentioned that he was in the leaked OPM database with his details and clearance level leaked which implies he had clearance.

That doesn't necessarily mean Mudge had a Secret clearance or something. For all we know, he could have had a Public Trust position, which meant he handled sensitive but unclassified information. Anybody in IT or infosec would have that kind of clearance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_but_unclassified

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2020/09/01/what-is-a-public-t...

Did he mention a clearance level, or just being in the OPM breach? My understanding is that the OPM breach included plenty of uncleared employeesas well.

(I’m not trying to be stubborn! If he really did hold a clearance as a DARPA PM, then I’m wrong in his case.)

You could have been in the OPM database being a janitor at the VA.

Although that wording about "Clearance level" does seem to suggest more than just the baseline government employee background check.

Yeah, that’s the part I’m curious about: there are plenty of “public trust” or SBU roles that I’d expect to have been leaked with the OPM breach that are “cleared” in the pop sense of the word, but are not actual clearances in the US Government’s sense.

> but I don't think it's one that actually requires a clearance.

In general, it doesn't. For some project areas it sometimes does. It really depends.

Right. The context in question is I2O, since that’s the office that Mudge was a PM in. I’d expect other offices to have different expectations around clearances, particularly the ones that do ballistic or aerospace research.

It's maybe possible I2O didn't require clearances when Mudge was a PM. Certainly at least since they moved to their current location everyone who works in the building or for the organization is cleared*.

Most programs themselves are unclass, and there are lots of collaborations in fundamental research where it's completely open, not even controlled unclass (CUI). That doesn't imply anything about the PM's clearance status. Not sure why a PM would go out of their way to talk about clearance status unless they were specifically planning for classified discussions. Your point about having a clearance not being some huge deal is certainly true though.

*Some support service people like janitorial may not be - I don't know, but then those people are escorted by people who are.

You kidding? You ever visit the office? It’s no joke, you need clearance to take a piss.

I’ve been inside of the DARPA building a handful of times, without a clearance. I did have to sign in and show ID, however.

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