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Comment by pkrotich | Hacker News Reader

"Jiro Dreams of Sushi" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi

If you're a developer / engineer you'll admire the professionalism. And more importantly value proposition of your work.

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I think Jiro Dreams of Sushi is a fantastic documentary and recommend it also.

I came away with a different impression, in that I certainly don't admire or want to share Jiro's attitude to work, because the perfection-at-all-costs approach looked like it had a pretty devastating fallout on his wife and his two sons. It's a fascinating documentary in that you'll either come away saying "how inspirational!" or "I'm running 100 miles away from that", and that's interesting in itself.

I agree to with you on the cost of perfectionism - I also didn't care for how women were treated at the restaurant (seating arrangements etc), but like you mentioned it's a fantastic documentary.

I think for me, I came out thinking "damn I truly do may be only 25% dedication to my craft".

It was probably a typo, but just in case English is your second language: We tend to use "don't care for" or "didn't care for" in this context.

If you say "I didn't care for the way women were treated..", it expresses disapproval.

We use "don't/didn't care about" to mean exactly the opposite. "I didn't care about" means that it doesn't matter to you at all.

Thanks for the feedback - yes I'm not a native English speaker (I'm trilingual)

It's a weird quirk, now that I think about it, as a native English speaker. It's only a change in present / past tense and the preposition, but communicates something completely different.

I guess reflecting on something external is always assumed in the past tense (I didn't care for...), while reflecting on ones own opinions (I don't care for...) suggests personal belief.

And "for" (external) vs "about" (self) intensifies the above.

But there aren't any real logistical or constant rules for why the above is, in English. :(

It's a little odd yes, but I think it counts as a phrasal verb? (https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/phrasal-verbs-list.ht... - eg. "throw out" vs. "throw up")

I've been learning Russian lately and re-discovering English through my lessons. Phrasal verbs are very present in Russian (as prepositions mainly), and I didn't realize how when I learned English they kind of came to me naturally and now I'm having such a hard time with them.

But when you think about it, phrasal verbs are fucking weird. For example, the various particles you can put after "send" (send out, send in, send up, send down, send away, send for, send into) are all various synonyms of "dispatching"; whereas "turn" as a phrasal verb is WAY more diverse (turn out, turn in, turn up, turn down, turn away, turn into, turn for: all different meanings).

I often use past tense because in my tribe (Kalenjin for those interested)- when you do historical commentary you don't interject with your current feelings. You say what you felt then (e.g while watching the documentary) unless you talking about how you feel now vs then. It's very contexual.

Rules in English can be confusing [1] ;)

[1] - https://youtu.be/kXH3HDE9Czo

I gather most people from eastern or central Africa are polyglot and much better at switching languages than I am. On behalf of English, I apologize for its irregularity. ;)

So in your first language, how would you express the idea of "I saw a documentary in the past, felt some way at the time, and now feel a different way?" To the extent translation is possible.

Languages fascinate me. Especially in terms of the constructs or concepts they can or can't express.

If you use present tense then it’s how you feel now with no reference when you started feeling so. Past tense implies you felt so then and you still feel so now (linear feeling is assumed). If your feelings have changed then you say how you felt originally and qualify it for the present (now I feel).

as someone that lived in Japan for over a decade I found it made up. The documentary people could have picked almost any indie sushi restaurant in Japan. I'm not sure what made Jiro special

I agree tho it's a good documentary for seeing someone taking their work so seriously and the fallout from it as well as for seeing how much work might go into certain kinds of food prep and therefore making me appreciate it more.

I think the Michelin three star rating for the restaurant is why it was picked. A line I remember and found hilarious was that Jiro’s place was the only three star restaurant without its own bathroom.

I just watched “10 years with Miyazaki” and had the exact same sentiments.

you may well be correct but society would be a lot less advanced if not for the works of 'unbalanced' individuals

In a way I do agree with you. See Newton, Einstein, MLK, Jobs, Musk, all have (arguably) revolutionary impacts on the world and yet they didn't do much for their family life. It is not commendable, and yet, it does seem to be the case that certain individuals who pursue their work above all else end up with qualitative progress in their fields.

One documentary that demonstrates finding flow (happiness) in work is Jiro Dreams of Sushi (2011), which is the story of Japanese master chef Jiro Ono, who is a Shokunin, an expert craftsman who strives for perfection and feels great fulfillment and joy from yearning to improve bit by bit. He explains it thusly,

"You must dedicate your life to mastering your skill. That’s the secret of success and is the key to being regarded honorably. […] . Even at my age, after decades of work, I don’t think I have achieved perfection. But I feel ecstatic all day. I love making sushi. That’s the spirit of the Shokunin."

From:

https://moviewise.substack.com/p/going-through-an-existentia...

And after watching that, I would recommend the Documentary Now! episode Juan Likes Rice and Chicken.

That was an hilarious parody! Thanks

What do you mean by value proposition? I don't remember seeing much that would apply to my work.

The waiting list is like a year long - even with high cost! Most of us would devalue our craft by opening up bigger restaurant or even multiple locations.

For me that translated to valuing my craft enough that people are willing to wait for and pay for it at whatever cost I set.

I would say it’s mostly an attitude around quality that is likely applicable to any sort of craftsmanship.

Just finished watching it, it was great. Thanks for the suggestion!

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