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Comment by frickenhamster | Hacker News Reader

I was referring the the stuff the people who want kf down were doying, ie selling homemade hormones to underaged children.

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> selling homemade hormones to underaged children

What is this? Who is doing this and why?

This happens because a lot of times trans people find themselves in the position where they realize they are trans but can’t do anything about it because they were born in a country that doesn’t offer the qualified help to them (at all or in timely fashion). Sometimes it has to do with their parents refusing to hear what’s on their mind. That’s when “trans diy” options come to light and they helped many a trans people previously. The thin line where this kind of behavior might turn into something less innocent might not be immediately obvious, especially when phrased in a way that is supposed to elicit emotional response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere "first, do no harm"

"Non-maleficence, which is derived from the maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics that all students in healthcare are taught in school and is a fundamental principle throughout the world. Another way to state it is that, "given an existing problem, it may be better not to do something, or even to DO NOTHING, THAN TO RISK CAUSING MORE HARM THAN GOOD." It reminds healthcare personnel to consider the possible harm that any intervention might do. It is invoked when debating the use of an intervention that carries an obvious risk of harm but a less certain chance of benefit."

You seem to be of opinion that this is a simple situation with clear cut options one of which is always safe while the other can bring harm. That is not the case, as usual with problems that cause so much discussion on the internet. If the trans person is not able to get necessary treatment (which is well documented by medical professionals) it’s very likely they will experience depression and they may even suffer harm as a result. How can you evaluate that doing nothing in this situation may indeed bring less harm than another option? That is usually a decision that needs to be made by a medical professional, but what if that’s not possible? What if the doctors aren’t trained to deal with situations like this and would still bring harm by their choices?

So the trans activist solution is to sell sexual hormones to prepubescent children? Is this real? I'm having trouble believing this shit.

>Is this real? I'm having trouble believing this shit.

Yes it's real and if you think making and distributing homemade hormones to children is vile and dangerous, you're apparently a transphobe nowadays.

You have trouble believing that trans people, whose problems are ignored by most population, choose to help people experiencing the same problem, that they know may lead to suicide if untreated, when nobody else does? How is it surprising? The only proper solution to this problem is to give all trans people equal and quick access to properly trained medical professionals who can treat them correct way, and that’s not happening.

Belief has nothing to do with it, gender dysphoria is an established medical diagnosis. The question is: why are these transgender people recommending and selling drugs to children? Do you seriously think this is okay?

Here's the published criteria for such a recommendation:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/

> Persistent and well-documented gender dysphoria

> Capacity to consent for the treatment

> Mental or medical underlying issues are in control

The gender dysphoria must be persistent. How is it possible to determine that without long term observation? The patient needs to consent after being informed of and understanding the risks. Can a child understand and consent to this?

It's absolutely insane that people think it's okay to just ignore all this and sell hormones to children. This is not help, this is drug dealing. Whoever is doing this is exposing children to significant risks.

Hormones are not specifically targeted to young people, and all the trans dyi resources I’ve seen have a ton of disclaimers and aren’t exactly easy to find and use. It is a last option for people who have no other choice, and it is regarded as such in community. To go this route you need to do actual math, do the blood work and read about this a lot. Do I think it should be available for children? In a perfect world - no, as children have access to medical professionals and puberty blockers. In this one, where an opinion of 17.999 year old may be completely discarded by parents who are 100% sure they know their child better then the child themselves? Where people can be told their appointment is in two years? Where the doctor can be a bigot and discard valid concerns? And not having this option at all may lead to many suicides? Yeah, I think this option may be justified. How many years would you consider to be permanent enough for you? Are you claiming that all parents are correct all the time?

That is absolutely insane. I don't care what the gender politics situation is. These hormones have significant risks associated with their use and are not things that can be sold to children.

You do know that there are plenty of faceless grey market hormone sellers that'll sell hormones to literally anyone who sends them cryptocurrency and maybe sometimes a bank transfer? "Trans activists" with large followings aren't the ones doing that.

Yes, that's illegal drug dealing. No way around that. However, that's not what was described to me in response to my original question.

What is this supposed to mean?

> That’s when “trans diy” options come to light and they helped many a trans people previously.

> trans people [...] choose to help people experiencing the same problem

Did I misinterpret this? Because it seriously sounds like there are trans people out there selling these "DIY trans" drugs. If they're knowingly selling to children in an attempt to help them as previously claimed, I'm sorry but that's extremely fucked up.

It is trans people / trans activists. They want children who think they are trans (despite 60-80% of children growing out of it) to use hormones.

Is there a source for the "60-80%" figure?

There are a couple different studies which is why I put the range. Here are a couple

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18981931/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23702447/

Some older studies from the 80s and 90s that are even higher (well into the 90%), but they may not be the best representation of the modern trans situation.

>what is this?

Selling homemade hormones to underaged children

>who is doing it?

Mentally ill people

>and why?

Mental illness

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