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Comment by brendanmc6 | Hacker News Reader

I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac. It won't go to sleep-- fans always spin unless I shut down completely. Forums aren't any help. Anyone have this issue? Other commenters have similar complaints here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31433556

I really wanted to support this company because I believe in repairability! But repairability is meaningless the software doesn't work... I'm not a 16 year old enthusiast anymore, I don't have the time or patience to troubleshoot drivers, firmware, devices etc. etc. :(

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> I'm almost ready to sell my DIY Windows framework and go back to mac.

If you do so make sure to buy the longest extended warranty you can, covering the slightest tiny thing that can happen to your M1 Mac. Mine was a fine machine, zero bug, while the screen worked. These M1 Mac laptops have brittle porcelain screens. As someone put it here: it's the bend-gate all over again. FWIW I've got both a 2013 and a 2014 MacBook Air as well as a 4 years old (?) LG Gram laptop. They all have their screens still working fine and I'm pretty sure I know how to handle a laptop: these new M1 laptops are just fragile.

I suspected there would be a catch preventing me from buying a MacBook.

I damaged the screen in every laptop that I ever owned - either by creating pressure marks or - like in the most recent one - somehow stretching(either via temperature or flexing the surprisingly flimsy cover) the adhesive which kept all the LCD layers in place, creating a diagonal clouding pattern in the process.

My next laptop will be a framework because then at least I will be able to easily replace the screen once the inevitable happens.

After hearing about this issue I went to the Apple store and tried to intentionally crack the screens on the display units. Closed the lids on several units with items between the screen and keyboard. Flexed the screen in several directions. Nothing.

You need to do this several thousand times. Let's say you use your laptop 300 day a year and that you close the screen about 4 times a day. If the laptop is designed to withstand 2000 closes then your laptop will break after less than two years.

No.

The reports were spontaneous cracks after only days or weeks. And the tolerances were blamed because small debris caught under the screen would allegedly put undue pressure on the screen.

Neither of those MacBook Airs have a glass display, do they?

Nothing about the M1s is more fragile than before, just treat your things more carefully.

As the context of this topic is Australia, this isn't necessary. Warranties don't add much value compared to consumer law, which the vendor must comply with in Australia.

Anything I've ever had a fault not caused by me with has been replaced free of charge years after I bought it, including from large American companies like Amazon and Apple.

I returned my 12th gen Framework and purchased an M1 Pro MBP. It was absolutely the right decision. I just wasn’t ready to accept the lower quality product for such a premium price as much as I wanted to support the company.

Maybe it's a Windows issue. My dell xps won't sleep either and I have to shut it down for any kind of transport.

"Modern Standby"... And yes, it never works properly

absolutely pointless option - disable in the bios and live a peaceful life.

My dell (linux) doesn't sleep either. At least it keeps my back warm while in transit on those cold winter mornings.

Not just Windows, it's at the hardware level. Intel has been removing S3 sleep mode from recent CPUs. It is insanely stupid

Same here, I ditched mac for Framework, tried Windows, nope, fans always on, Ubuntu, battery died when lid closed in < 2 hours and fingerprint scanner didn't work. Fedora, same issue. I sold it and bought an M1 Pro. Nothing wrong with it so far. OK it was 3 times the price, but you get what you pay for.

Then a macbook is the right choice if you just want a device that works and got no time for tinkering around.

The "just works" thing is unfortunately a thing of the past.

It's really... not. I've used MBPs for years (three generations of them) and they've literally (like, literally literally) Just Worked.

But I'm sure you'll find stats and horror stories that say otherwise, as if, somehow, Apple (or anyone) is capable of producing hardware and software that's impossible to break, never fails, and lasts forever.

I've been using Apple for a decade now and my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines reminded me of the Windows 95 -> Windows 2000 transition only with no way of actually getting things to work.

It does a lot of things right - especially sleep - however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility.

Also not having a battery which can be replaced or storage which can be user-upgraded is absolute garbage in 2022.

EDIT: if I was still a gamer I'd be laughing the MacBook out of the room.

I feel like then you are just not the target audience. I haven't had the need to replace storage or battery for a decade. In the early MBP it was nice to change the battery as they degraded quickly but now it just doesn't happen any more and even my old 2015 MBP is still working fine.

User upgradeable storage is a very niche feature.

Exactly. I can't remember the last time I ever WANTED to upgrade storage or a battery. Is that even a problem anymore? Maybe for some?

> my experiences with the Apple Silicon machines ... however I'm constantly running into problems with buggy software which is unfixable because Apple don't do compatibility.

You're aware that the compatibility of any software (that's not Apple software) is the responsibility of the software vendor with regards to making it work on Silicon? Have I misunderstood you here? You can't actually expect Apple to just magically make code designed for one CPU architecture just work on another? There's kernel level translations you can do between opcodes, but that can't be expected to be perfect. The perfect solution is the vendor updates their software.

That's the attitude of Apple and the reason why you should never use Apple for anything mission-critical.

Microsoft on the other hand: Windows is literally full of work-arounds they added to ensure that new releases did not break existing software.

Apple at this point is FAR larger company than Microsoft was in the early 2000s. They're a goliath and should be more than capable of doing what Microsoft did.

Meh, the last two that I've had:

2014 MBP: worked well for a couple of years, then developed a fault where it randomly half comes out of sleep, then gets very hot, even when closed in a bag.

2018 MBP: randomly completely crashes, with no warning whatsoever, roughly once a day.

2022 m1 macbook pro here - and i have one from work too. never had either crash, haven't plugged this one in for literally days, and right now i have an ide, vscode, ableton, slack, chrome with like 400 tabs in multiple windows and it's cool to the touch.

I think you'd like apple silicon macs.

I'm not sure of the point being made? Is it: manufacturing processes and software aren't perfect? And that only applies to Apple?

why do you say that? genuinely curious.

problem is... the macbook are awful

fwiw my Dell won't go to sleep either (on Linux at least)

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