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Dreamachine

en.wikipedia.org

60 pointsapollinaire36 comments

Anyone remember the guy outside Frost at Stanford selling plastic Flickr glasses with little holes that you blow into to make them spin as you stare at the sun with your eyes closed? They were basically mini dreamachines. Never have been able to track him down. He just appeared one day selling these things out of the blue and then vanished. Weirdest thing ever. I bought a pair but I must have lost them. They appeared to be professionally manufactured, but I don’t recall any identifying information engraved in the plastic. I swear, this guy was probably a professor experimenting on the public. I wish I could remember the year. 1989?

I remember trying out a similar device someone was selling at the Lollapalooza festival in Phoenix, AZ in 1993. Could be the same guy?

Here is a draft paper that gives history, neuroscience and some EEG experiments

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o2UaGksswlmA9wUcXYnHXc7o...

For instance, the effect was discovered by neuroscientist Purkinje, as a child, in the mid 1800s.

The Dreamachine experience is currently touring the UK. It really is worth checking out. Incredible visualisations all inside ones mind. The music is by Jon Hopkins. An experience I'll never forget.

https://dreamachine.world/

I think Ganzflicker is something similar.

Article and discussion:

Simple test reveals if your mental images are more vivid than other people's (sciencealert.com) 177 points by smusamashah on June 28, 2021 | 146 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27669211

Link to online tool (warning: it starts flickering as soon as the page loads):

https://kerblooee.github.io/ganzflicker/

You have to wonder why the government would sponsor this...

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/may/09/dreamac...

The musician behind it is called Jon Hopkins, and has an album called Singularity. Ray Kurzweil anyone?

> How do you feel about robots taking over? "I’m a massive catastrophist by nature."

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/29/jon-hopkins-ps...

I have a pair of glasses with leds that pulsate light at different frequencies following a programmed routine on an arduino chip. You, of course, use it with eyes closed. First time I used it I felt pretty bad, but there was something intriguing going on. I tried it again the next day and it was amazing. It induces a state of very deep relaxation. As the routine progresses you get more and more relaxed. Your mind really changes from an alert alpha frequency, to a delta or theta frequency. At the end of it I feel like I did a session of deep meditation with mantras. So yes, this really does work.

Just built a dreamachine combined with binaural beats as a PWA. Frequencies and colors are configured by tapping and dragging the screen. Binaural beat is in sync with dreamachine pulse.

PWA: https://dreamachine.vercel.app

Code: https://github.com/carlbarrdahl/dreamachine

Does anyone know if there is a readily available hardware or software version of this (presumably using a laptop monitor or LED panel or similar instead of a rotating screen)?

Keep in mind that these may trigger epilepsy in some people. Use with care.

The external links section of the article has, among other links, some links to software versions:

* Online Dreamachine application – https://no-labs.com/demos/dreamachines/index.html

* JavaScript Dreamachine – https://www.webnovelty.net/dreamachine.html

* Info on Dreamachine iOS and Android app – https://dreamachine.co/

* An open-source mobile-friendly Dreamachine App – https://dreamachine-web-app.netlify.com/

As well as a video simulation of the original device

* Dreamachine Simulator on YouTube, using Gysin's original frequency and cut out specifications. – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2jbZgxR1jI

I find it nice that you gave an epilepsy warning. We have a long way to go in a11y for the internet as well as really all media consumable by human senses, but I do feel like strides have been made and awareness is much higher now compared to even just 5-10 years ago. Thank you for the considerateness!

I wonder how well these work compared to the real thing? A 150W light bulb shining through holes in a rotating piece of wood produce beams flashing over the eyes. This exact method to produce the effect is difficult (impossible?) to replicate with a PC monitor (unless you're a hacker in a movie).

Of course the effect might still work; but while I'm curious about it, I'm not in the mood to try this now. So judging/dismissing these implementations now would be unfair.

I don't think it's that important, the rotating slots and constant light were appropriate ways to get the necessary switching speed with incandescents.

The experience that was in London recently used banks of led spotlights, not even dedicated strobes.

There are also the Mind machines [1]. At least in Europe, there's still a company Galaxy that sells them under the "psychowalkman" name.

I've used about 20 years ago. It wasn't unpleasant, but also without a big effect. I think it was because the overall feeling was a bit like a medical examination. You put plastic gear on your eyes and your ears, tangled cables everywhere... and then you're supposed to relax.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_machine

In the 90’s there were a few “mind Spas” in NYC offering time on some of these machines.

Around this time Binaural Beats / Hemi-sync was also out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi-Sync

Both claiming to create brain wave entrainment and easier meditative states.

I am a layman, but supposedly we have a pineal gland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland). It's main purpose is to manage our state of wakefulness based on light reaching our eyes. It manages melatonin levels.

I wonder if this device is modulating that system rather than some kind of "altering [of] the brain's electrical oscillations."

I have a friend that had one of these in 90's. He and few other friends swore it was fantastic, but I could never fully relax to 'see' the effects. It felt like on a neurological exam, but the latter one had more intense effect (unpleasant); You know the one with strobing light and EEG. If you've been on one of those, it's quite like that but with music, hah.

Maybe it's just anecdotal but I remember having very vivid dreams almost every day when I used to leave my Nintendo 3DS in sleep mode (really bright pulsing blue LED) on the nightstand.

I've always wanted to try to replicate this effect by using an Arduino or something like that and playing with the various LED colors, brightness, etc.

Cathay Pacific had an LED wall which changed colours in the manner described. Quite bizarre and disturbing.

The Hong Kong airline? If so when/where was this wall?

The front row of business class. Saw it twice, probably in 2006.

I would love a more customizeable remee mask*

Tuning intensity and pulse frequency so i don’t throw the mask off my face

*https://sleepwithremee.com

They had an installation in Woolwich, London, until recently and I trekked across town to visit. OUTSTANDING. I enjoyed it so much I immediately bought some Kasina goggles to try and replicate the experience!

I went and enjoyed it very much also.

An added bonus was that the weather was lovely and the walk up the Thames away from London was fantastic and I discovered an incredible Victorian pumping station: https://www.crossness.org.uk

How were the goggles?

Oh Crossness is amazing, definitely, I have - weirdly - fond memories of photographing the Sludge Powered Generator over there which was built donkey's years ago but was an instant classic design.

But I digress. The goggles are ace, but I packed them up to move and now I've no idea which blinking box they're in. Going to hunt for them tomorrow off the back of this, though.

https://www.bookofjoe.com/2005/01/dream_machine.html

https://noah.org/science/dreamachine/

A friend of mine built one of these and brought it to a music event. Pretty neat - I didn’t trip or anything, but it was nice to chill out in front of with your eyes closed.

Maybe play Mark Farina’s ‘Dream Machine’ while gazing into the light?

https://youtu.be/VdAgj34G4tg

Or John Zorn's Dreamachines

(haven't been able to find it on youtube for years)

None of these methods of induced psychedelic effects ever work for me, but I have aphantasia so I suspect it’s related.

Has anyone else lacking a minds eye been able to make this work?

When you close your eyes and rub them (apply gentle pressure) for about 30 seconds, do you see anything?

I think many of the effects are in the retina, so I think you’d see stuff with flicker even with aphantasia, but only you can tell!

I've noticed similar effects when riding in a car with my eyes closed while the sunlight filters through the trees. I didn't know it had name.

Was hoping it would be a Ted Nelson reference.

Anyone made version for VR headsets?

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