Simple test reveals if your mental images are more vivid than other people's
sciencealert.com
sciencealert.com
It's almost like a huge maze, grid, or some other pattern but painful to look at. The dream tends to be extremely unpleasant and usually returns after falling back asleep.
I was trying to explain it to a friend the other day and didn't do a very good job.
This comes from someone who enjoys the language, too. Weird stuff...
When I recognize it happening, I can usually snap out of it.
Now I know what is happening and I just take it as a sign that I'm very tired. It's comforting to see someone else describing the same thing that is happening to me.
My "logic puzzle" is moving endless amounts of large, heavy cubes in holes that keep on appearing when I fill them. The visual aspect is only a part of it, the emotional feeling of the endless task is another.
For what it's worth, I instantly see very complex patterns in the visual test.
- Can't even do basic math, or I solve it wrong (e.g. 2 + 3 = 7) - Impossible (non-euclidian) spatial arrangement - Leave out big gaps of details, which I have to fill in if I remember the dream. Not that I'm forgetting stuff, I just never thought of it in the first place - Misremember stuff from the past
But yes, I get the fever dreams.
Never did find any kind of label for the symptoms. I kept a journal of the episodes for a while. They seemed to come up monthly when I was around 16.
At the very least it's validating to encounter others who had had similar experiences.
> No home was sweet without a Game Boy in 1990. That year, I stayed "for a week" with a friend in Tokyo, and Tetris enslaved my brain. At night, geometric shapes fell in the darkness as I lay on loaned tatami floor space. Days, I sat on a lavender suede sofa and played Tetris furiously. During rare jaunts from the house, I visually fit cars and trees and people together.
Sometimes it is very fast morphing shape of objects and events, morphing into other shapes and events ...
But what is most disturbing is that during the dream everything looks logical and known, it is feeling like tapping to some higher source of knowledge, but as soon as I wake up, it seems my brain shrank to regular size and cannot read from the same book, so "symbols"/"letters"/"words"/"sentences" which were understandable there I cannot read anymore. Forgive my lack of words, it is like in those movies where protagonist gets turn to a cat or dog, so he at that point his cat/dog brain cannot understand humans and human talking/thinking anymore...
Annoying part is that, attempting to explain people how does it feel and look like sounds worse than when teen boy trying to talk to a girl he has crush into...
But I have to say no, never in my life have I ever experienced something like that. So it's not a human universal.
I wonder if it is the experience of a mechanism the brain uses to prevent damage from the high body temperature?
Once I tried to somehow fit a ball into blue. The two concepts were so different that I just kept on trying and failing.
Recently (also with quite a fever) I had a stack of dominoes that would fall over as I ran my hand over them. But then when I got to the end they were all upright again and I just kept going forward and back with no resolve.
It's extremely frustrating.
Did it a second time maybe 30 minutes later and it quickly resolved into spinning wind turbines blades, dozens of them, circling the middle of the screen, in a random circle-ish flow that moved like waves. After a few minute of that, it seemed like I was falling through a warp tunnel with stars connected by glowing arms flashing by, then hands and arms started to reach up from the bottom of the screen and I turned it off.
I just let my eyes relax and didn't really focus on the screen, but when I did focus, that's usually when the unpleasant images appeared.
I have never been able to do anything close to this, and similarly have self-diagnosed as much weaker in this "power". I mean I can visualize things in my mind but it is fuzzy and fleeting, like focusing on any detail collapses the field of view.
This episode of radiolab about a musician who can maintain a 3d mental image of four orchestras playing at once always stuck with me, and seems relevant to this topic:
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/30142...
FWIW this is sort of a thing that the process of becoming an artist trains you to do. I have been a professional artist for a couple decades and it is much easier for me to do this sort of thing than it was when I was a kid. There's a lot of steps involved in projecting a mental 3d model onto a 2d plane that I can just do in my head now because I've done them so damn many times.
There's definitely an innate level of doing this as well, some people start with a big boost, various psychoactive chemicals can help (I have done so much work while slightly stoned for the performance boost it gives my visual cortex), and then there is that story about one 1940s animator at Warner Bros. who got in a car accident that involved a degree of head injury, and could suddenly just "trace" stuff directly off of his mental images onto paper once he recovered.
FWIW, I don't think the ability to visualize something specifically in your "mind's eye" has a lot to do with creativity.
I interpret this as more about direct recall of memory. The stronger the visuals the more likely you are to be able to recall a specific event/visual in more detail (whether it's accurate is up for debate).
Disclaimer, I have no idea what I'm talking about - I just like this subject.
I've seen absolutely nothing on this flashing screen despite looking at it for around 5 minutes. I don't think everyone else is lying, but i wonder if other people's brains just get "bored" and start imagining things, on a moving visual canvas.
Overall, this was totally disappointing.
I think that's precisely the intended effect of this experiment.
Note that whether people's minds get bored or not, the idea is the same: whether they can visualize things that aren't really in front of them.
I know this will do nothing to dispel your suspicion, but I can see people and places with great clarity, detail, in color and moving, and if I focus on them they are not fleeting (I get involuntary images that are fleeting though).
You'll be right to dismiss my claim -- I'm some random stranger on the internet after all -- but I can only assure you that not only am I not lying, until very recently I thought this was the norm. In fact, I had to be convinced by a friend who suffers from it that aphantasia is not a hoax. I still cannot understand how someone can be unable to see the face of their loved ones unless they are actually in front of them.
As for the red lights in this experiment: they started to change as my eyes became unfocused, and I got some "hypnotic" dizzy feeling after a couple of minutes, but didn't see any shapes and got bored with it so I closed the window.
Imagine you're looking down on a grid of squares. It's a little bit like a chess board, but it's only four squares wide and four squares high. In each square is a single letter, and each horizontal row spells a four-letter word. The top row spells "SEER" , the second row spells "SLAP", the third row spells "HEAL", and the bottom row spells "TRIM". While visualizing this grid of letters in front of you, can you now tell me which words you see running either vertically or diagonally? You should be able to do this by looking at the grid and without having to do any sorting of letters in your mind.
My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this, despite only having to memorize four words to complete the picture.
I'm on one spectrum (absolutely no imagination), this test might be aimed at the other end.
Note: I do not "claim" to visualize, I can do it, like many others. Remember that aphantasia is the uncommon condition.
I cannot see vertical or diagonal words and in fact have trouble focusing on the words. I can see one at a time clearly, but if I focus on the others the rest become blurry. I can see the checkered board though. I suspect this is because your example is too artificial and analytical.
My visual mind doesn't work analytically like this. I can see the face of my friends and family with lots of details (I can see them with different hair cuts for example), even hear their voices. I can remember scenes from my last vacation clearly, in full color.
But I cannot do a crossword puzzle visually, sorry.
I can see equations floating in my mind, but only if I focus on a narrow section; and I obviously cannot do serious math with them.
I too can recall scenes from my last holiday trip. I can "see" the night time scene at the bar, the placement of me and my friends around the table, the lady in a white shirt delivering our drinks -- but it's not the same as a real photograph. It's a different type of vision altogether. It's possible that there are people who are experiencing the same thing as I am, but are describing what they are seeing as a clear photograph. My argument is that it's not a clear photograph if you can't inspect any details.
In fact, I suspect many of my mental images are inaccurate and my brain is making some stuff up. I'm not claiming to have perfect recall, just that I see visual imagery with my mind :)
I however can hear passages of music I remember well: the opening from Star Wars, parts of Kind of Blue or songs from Pink Floyd, the intro song of many TV shows, etc. I probably cannot pass a test equivalent to the crossword puzzle either, but I definitely can hear the music and it's not just me mumbling in my head.
This is where I think the difference in description is happening between myself and others. I've experienced both visual and auditory hallucinations before. These are indistinguishable from real images and sounds. When I picture things, play music, or talk out-loud in my own head, it's not the same as reality. It's a different type of seeing and hearing. Some people seem to imply that their imagination capabilities are on the same level as hallucinations. They say they can picture things with picture-perfect clarity, right there in the same room with them. I even had one artist say he could overlay an image on a piece of paper with his mind and then trace over it.
I have another test I'd like to ask these people: is it possible to picture a black square that sits in front of your eyes and obscures your whole vision? If not, why not?
It's just a very vivid and detailed experience, but it absolutely cannot be confused with the real thing like an hallucination can.
I can see geometric shapes of all colors but they don't obscure my vision. They "bypass" my vision and go through a different "channel". I cannot confuse myself and suddenly think there's a floating black square in front of me.
But this blinky screen plus white noise gave me nothing after 5 minutes except some slightly brighter and darker areas, and I aborted. <Hercules> Disappointed! </Hercules>
I learned about six months ago that Aphantasia was a thing, and that I seem to have it. For me, this was a cool (if massively annoying) confirmation.
Not sure why they talk about it being "wrong" since obviously you are functioning enough to be commenting on a site on the internet rather coherently....
For reference I tend to get interesting/vivid visuals whenever I close my eyes for a few seconds, often when I look at a finely patterned/textured surface, and sometimes when I look at basically anything when I've gone >36 hours without sleep. The visuals from this are more intense than those I get from simply closing my eyes though, and more interesting/changing than those from looking at tiled floors or popcorn ceiling.
They're fairly distinct in sensation from visuals experienced through imagining, which are fairly distinct from daydreaming, which are fairly distinct from dreaming.
I wish we had a language expressive enough to share these qualitative experiences - my writing does little to express them.
- some strange smooth shapes, like two glass hourglasses on either side with oil refracting light, with a blob sliding through the middle of them
- A cat's face
- A forest with non-existent animals running through the tall large-trunked trees
- A palace full of marble columns
- Some sort of grand tower that went out into space, and seemed to branch out like a rope being made
There were all many more abstract things, typically in between (or as a transition between) the more identifiable parts.
That said, in the last year or so I have begun to enjoy music from the extractor fan in our kitchen. Each time it is on I hear a random genre of music - plain chant, brass band, jazz, etc. I don't experience it in any other context (or any other hallucinations before you ask). Anyone else get something like this?
Now that I mentioned the extractor fan...have you listened to Sleep Research Facility's music? He made music out of the sound of broken fans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SleepResearch_Facility
It also becomes more prevalent when using mind altering substances.
But it was just one genre, music by an artist like Stelladrone or similar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect
https://mindplace.com/products/kasina-ganzframes
Basically Sound and Light "Mind Machines" have been utilizing this effevt for decades.
I only did it for 2 minutes, and it wasn't strong or overpowering. But I saw a) a blurry checkerboard, and b) ripples coming out of the 4 corners of the screen.
It turns out, 4 ripples coming out of the screen creates a blurry checkerboard! See https://www.falstad.com/ripple/, set to "Example: Four Sources". That was exactly what I saw, but sped up, in red instead of green, and the ripples came out of the corners instead of east/north/west/south.
Guys, we better up his dose.
It's very consistent and I use it as a sign that it's time to sleep.
Intereesting correlation.
I'm not really sure what to make of this, but I'll try this periodically and see if I get anything different.
EDIT: I am curious how this would be affected by music as opposed to white noise.
That's alarming.
> with no lasting effects for the brain.
How does the party asserting that, know that?
It would be fascinating if some crazy combination of stimuli could have sort of a “reset human” sort of effect. Given that we’re revolved organisms and not machines it’s hard to imagine any evolutionary purpose, but it’s fun to think about.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. The human brain has an enormous amount of dedicated circuitry for recognizing and interpreting human faces. When something goes wrong in that circuitry we can't just "do it in software" and we call it face-blindness.
The article starts with self-reported effects, already conditioning you to expect an almost psychedelic experience with this test. Didn't like that.
I was kind of annoyed by this finding that I started trying different ways to imagine objects. Few months ago interesting thing happen, I woke up really early and stayed up after 2am, when I got in bad, I was in state that I passed state of sleepy, so my mind was fully conscious, (state you can choose do you want to get up or not at any time), and then stream of images appeared from single point, that point grew and like accessing some optic cable hole, and it was vivid very vivid like reality. It lasted just a few 10 - 30 sec before I was knocked of and started sleeping.
It look like my left side of brain (logic) was so tired that handed over everything to right side (pictures colors) additionally leaving spectator (chartering voice) awake for little while. I am no medical person just interpreting subjective experience so do not take any of this as fact. I just remember that at at that point that I had feeling that Logical side of brain imposed some kind of dictatorship on imaginative side of brain, because of job or past experiences. That time logical brain was too tired after more than 20hrs of coding and thinking so it seems went away for a sleep fraction of time earlier than the imaginative side. :)
The trick is to pick a word, something like “bed”, “sleepy”, etc. You then take each letter and try to think of as many things that start with that letter. The catch is that you should try visualizing the object as clearly as possible. You move on to the next letter once you run out of things for the current letter.
This is supposed to move your mind from the verbal, anxiety-ridden, future-minded mode to the pre-verbal, visual mode. That then slowly fades into hypnagogic imagery, which then leads to sleep and dreams.
That would be hypnogogic hallucations[1]. Different from aphantasia[2]. People with aphantasia can typically experience hypnagogia just fine.
I was trying to say, that I would like to know how to induce that state somehow, so I could "fix" aphantasia.
Do people with Aphantasia dream vivid dreams with images?
How about masturbation without visual input? Are you not capable of visually imagining something arousing, like a person you find very attractive etc?
I don’t _think_ I suffer from it but would call the images in my head very clear or detailed or very accurate.
I almost never dream. When I do dream it's fairly lifelike.
I can't visualize anything arousing. When I first learned (at 26!) that my friends can visualize any fantasy at will I was floored. I have zero internal imagery for anything sexual. Have no fantasies.
I can't picture anyone's face. Bodies are only experienced in person. If I can't see it with my eyes, it doesn't exist.
There are extremely rare fleeting moments where I might wake up and remember some details about a dream for a few seconds, but then I lose it. Those would be counted on one hand per year, easily.
I'm not able to look at the Ganzflicker at the moment but I did skim the research study in question (given that the focus on the article is on the conjectured mechanisms and not the results themselves) and the results found there are somewhat intriguing.
I get much more vivid visuals with my eyes closed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia
Searching for that led me to this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_effect
> I felt I could reach through the screen to get to another place. Lasers became entire fans of light sweeping around, and then it felt as if the screen began to expand. I saw old stone buildings … like a castle … I was flying above it.
I was presented with 3 options, a Dodge Ram, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and some other truck. I was trying really hard to figure out what the statement had to do with vehicles until I scrolled down (on mobile) more to realize it was a poorly placed advertisement. Not sure why the internet thinks I want to buy a truck, but I imagine there could have been even more hilarious things that could have fit the context better.
If you don't "see" anything with your eyes closed then this probably won't work for you.
Also I should add that what I described above feels distinct from focusing on the inner eye.
The actual survey result says that most experience simple shapes (60%).
39% saw colors other than red and black.
24% report very vivid colorful and complex images.
25% didn't see anything (answer "No").
(doesn't add up to 100% because multiple options could be selected)
A quick internet search reveals 1-3% of people have aphantasia.
I wouldn't rely too much on the results of this test w.r.t. aphantasia.
Anyway, at the very start of my 10min of ganzflicker I think I could see some very faint "wireframe" lines of no shapes in particular (just like * patterns), but these went away after a minute or so, and then it was just flashing colours, but the colours kept changing, and they were mostly reds, pinks, blues, yellows. Rarely green.
I have only experienced something that sounds like how normal folks see in their minds eye once, on the cusp of falling asleep, hypnagogic hallucinations began but I was somewhat in control of what I was seeing, I could change the image at will to whatever I imagined. It lasted but a couple of minutes before I fell asleep. Someone that has a normal mind's eye - and has also experienced the pre-sleep hallucinations - would have to tell me if my experience was similar to a normal imagination though. It could be that my hypnagogic episode was far more vivid than a typical person's visual imagination during normal waking hours though, too, who knows? I did feel very jealous though after that episode thinking that most people probably have such an ability to visualize like that while awake.
I can visualise things with great detail in my minds eye, and yet I saw nothing but an annoying flashing screen with this.