> fantastic in some ways, but I think they've massively oversold it
Seems like par for the course for most Musk ventures
Seems like par for the course for most Musk ventures
You actually make a fairly decent point (FSD being forever "soon" is one example), however in most of the businesses that Elon Musk operates in, delays or outright failures are extremely common (Tesla made electric cars appealing. Basically was impossible. SpaceX developed rockets in a "few years". Basically unheard of since Apollo-era. And so on).
So I would probably lean on the side of "give the dude some slack"?
Some of these comments suggest that having satellite internet onboard a cruise ship is a new thing. It's certainly not.
After some quick googling it looks like the current provider is O3b Networks (now part of SES), using modem equipment manufactured by ST Engineering iDirect.
I somehow doubt that when O3b Networks won that contract in 2013 it made the front page of HN. But now, there's "SpaceX's Starlink" in the title and it sits on #7 on the front page with 130+ comments.
This story for example, of the comments where Musk is first mentioned in a thread, 3 (including the dead one) are anti-Musk, and 1 is neutral (using Musk as shorthand for Musk's businesses), and zero are positive. Nothing rabidly pro-Musk.
So I rather think stories like this are being upvoted because people like hearing about travel, internet and comms, rockets, satellites, and the like. I don't think it's very charitable to think it's only due to some vapid Musk fan club.
How much does spacex spend on marketing?
Just because some people (excluding you) think his products are awesome, doesn't mean he oversold it.
Also, Elon constantly oversells his products every chance he is given - Tesla shows, any interview, I think he managed to do it even when he went on SNL.
It was a dummy payload. Sure the car was more expensive than a block of concrete, but not by much.
Elon claims SpaceX was started because he couldn't inspire people with a martian greenhouse photo. So it is "in character" for him to do inspiring things if possible along the way.
Perhaps that's "significantly more costly than the vast majority of ad campaigns", but only because the vast majority of ad campaigns are not very costly at all (I guess the dominant ad campaign by number is a limited online or local print one for a small business, costing in the low 4 figures). Certainly it wouldn't be significantly more costly than the vast majority of ad campaigns for car manufacturers, though.
I also haven't seen any other car company CEO claiming that the car they sell you will literally pay for itself in 1 year by collecting faires as a robotaxi starting from 2019.
I also haven't seen any other company CEO claiming that their company will give you virtual immortality by uploading your brain into a computer.
Well, I should say for all of these, any other CEO that is not running a scam company.
Musk claims to be worried about the earth becoming uninhabitable and has the goal of starting a colony on Mars to mitigate that risk. Do you think that's just a lie he's telling to somehow get richer? That he doesn't really have that concern or aim? What's the scam here?
Sure he is over-optimistic and hypes is products and over-promises. When it comes to rockets, so does NASA, Boeing, ULA, Aerojet Rocketdyne, Northrop Grumman, Blue Origin, Arianespace... well probably most of them. When it comes to electric or autonomous cars, so does GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, Uber... also probably most of them.
Yes, that aim is impossible for the forseeable future, and for the effort and resources you would spend making a self-sustaining Mars colony, if it's in any way possible, you can definitely make the Earth habitable after any possible disaster that doesn't destroy the whole orbit.
For the others, find me one other example that has so constantly spread such lies.
Also, I'm not saying that SpaceX or Tesla are a scam, they are clearly companies that have achieved huge milestones and are producing and selling real products. I'm just saying that he massively over-promises and over-hypes his products, far beyond what other CEOs of actual companies do.
He does sometimes end up over promising so much that he has run afoul of false advertising laws, or very near - particularly with "full self-driving".
You also are saying they're scams.
> Well, I should say for all of these, any other CEO that is not running a scam company.
And just about all the rocket and self driving and electric car companies and government organizations I listed massively over promised things. Tesla and Space X aren't the worst of the bunch as far as I can see. How are you measuring these over promises compared with others?
I think what this looks like is you just personally hate Musk and are trying to come up with reasons for it that don't sound petty or unreasonable. You don't have to, you're allowed to hate him for whatever reason you like, and you don't have to explain yourself to anybody.
He is saying that his goal is to make humanity multi-planetary, so that it can survive a disaster that may happen to the earth.
This goal is impossible with anything resembling current technology. This is obvious if you think about it even for a little bit. So it's either a lie, or he hasn't thought about it for more than a little bit.
> You also are saying they're scams.
No I'm not. I'll repeat it again: SpaceX and Tesla are serious companies producing worthwhile products that people want. They have both broken ground in areas where no company has broken ground for a long long time, and they have generally left older companies in their spaces in the dust.
This doesn't mean that Musk doesn't try to present them as even more than they actually are, for purposes that I'm sure are part ego boosting, part clever marketing. He often outright lies while doing so, or promises impossible goals in impossible timelines.
Great, that's a cool goal. Especially with so much concern about existential threats to humanity on earth.
> This goal is impossible with anything resembling current technology. This is obvious if you think about it even for a little bit. So it's either a lie, or he hasn't thought about it for more than a little bit.
Or he wants to improve on current technology, like he's been doing.
> No I'm not. I'll repeat it again: SpaceX and Tesla are serious companies producing worthwhile products that people want. They have both broken ground in areas where no company has broken ground for a long long time, and they have generally left older companies in their spaces in the dust.
Okay you backed down on that now, but you did say it before in the part I quoted.
> This doesn't mean that Musk doesn't try to present them as even more than they actually are,
Like all companies including the many competitors I listed.
> for purposes that I'm sure are part ego boosting, part clever marketing. He often outright lies while doing so, or promises impossible goals in impossible timelines.
I still think it's that you hate Musk and are fixating on him. When I asked you to explain why it's a scam for example, you couldn't. So just a bit more thinking through things seems to help bring a bit more clarity and perspective.
I mean you're asking about other companies and CEOs, I can't understand it you must be willfully looking the other way. The CEO of BP has has branded himself a visionary leader who is fighting climate change, for example. And that kind of bullshit is common among petroleum corporations, that was just the first example I searched for.
So, it's just all pretty rich to hear you talking about how other CEOs are great and don't do all these terrible things you imagine Musk does. I mean, there are perfectly good reasons to hate Musk, but when you start trying to say other CEOs are much better by comparison and that's your justification for it, I think that demonstrates it's not very rational in this case.
Though there's a distressing culture of nerds who salivate at every brain fart he puts out into the world