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Comment by kirse | Hacker News Reader

the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god..."

It is if you assume God is bound to the chain of causation, but obviously any creator is likely unbound by the system of laws in which his creation exists, the same as when we create a video game we stand apart from it. I always liked the Dr. Quantum Flatland as an example of god-like capabilities wrt dimensionality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEVEKL1Fbx0

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By the same logic the universe itself (as opposed to its contents including the laws of nature) then the universe isn't necessarily bound to the internal system of laws, and all the same arguments can apply there with no need for a creator!

Even if the creator exists outside their creation under different laws of physics (if any), who created the creator or how did the creator come to be?

(I can’t watch the video right now.)

That question assumes the default state is they didn’t exist already

But how does this "uncaused cause" add anything to our understanding of the cosmos, beyond adding one more entity?

Why not say that God was created by God_1, who just already existed?

seems like both your Gods were created by a SuperGod who is programming the simulation in Python

> did the creator come to be..

Time, and causuality, is a construct inside of our universe. Asking who created the creator is like asking which way is down when you are in outer space..

If you can’t use the concept of causality outside of the universe, then the idea that there’s a creator outside of the universe who caused the universe is already out of bounds.

> who caused the universe is already out of bounds.

"caused" can mean a different thing. Imagine causualty in a 3d FPS video game, and the creation of the game itself. Though they are similar in semantics, one is different from the other.

Ah, well in that case, the parent poster can just say that asking about the cause of the creator is a valid thing to talk about, because they mean a subtly different kind of ‘cause’ than the kind of cause you told them wasn’t valid to talk about outside of the universe.

They can, but that wouldn't be too interesting to anyone in this universe. Or that it how I read it. Just like a being in a game wondering what caused the game company/programmer to write the game..

The reason will have no consequence to the beings in the game, and thus they will only be interested in the causuality mechanism within the game..

I infer then that you think the concept of a creator outside of our universe who caused it is a concept of no consequence. If so, then on that we agree.

recursion is one of the possible explanations as well. No beginning, no end.

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