[flagged]
I'm not presenting an argument in either direction. I'm simply saying it's a more complex issue than "this thing makes everyone healthier, therefore it should be law."
If the disease is "solved" then getting vaccinated should make you immune to the disease and you shouldn't care what others are doing.
Education is hard. Deradicalization is even harder. But it's something we need to learn how to do again as a society.
Some of the vaccine conspiracy theories are truly insane, but medical patriarchy is not the answer.
That's obviously untrue. For example the state claims the right to confine (and sometimes even execute) the body of people convicted of murder. And most people are ok with that.
Where the line is, is of course a complicated question, but the absolute version where the state cannot ever control people at all, is obviously false.
When I was 18 year old I had similar ideas, but later I found a great song by the clash that goes by as: “I fought the law but the law won”[1].
Even the rebellious spirit of 70s punk acknowledges that one may fight(and should) but the law wins, and has power over your body however the law says so. To fight the law you cannot use your body but your mind.
This is obviously untrue: the state can lock up and kill you, is currently asserting its right to restrict people from having abortions performed on them, and has been increasingly aggressive about attack peoples' right to undergo hormone replacement therapy, among many many other examples. Mandatory vaccination has very much been something the state has historically exercised its powers to enforce, quite successfully in the case of smallpox.
We're extremely inconsistent about what authority we exercise over others' bodies, generally, but we're a very far cry from never exercising it or acting as if doing so were simply beyond the pale.
It comes down to this: your collectivism ends where my individualism begins. Can you compel me to take an unwanted vaccine against my will? You can't? It's still my choice? Then kiss my ass.
I think the voluntarily (EDIT: polio) unvaccinated are misled or idiots, but this is a bad comparison. Non-consensual sex is violence. Full stop. We can start arguing that giving people an infectious disease is like violence, or this or that, mais ceci n'est pas une pipe.
What it is analogous to is getting "stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway" [1].
Kind of? But in this case somehow the driver is driving a bus, or their car is pulling other cars in due to gravity, or something? A motorist who ends up on a flooded motorway endangers themselves and some first responders - which yes, is dumb, but after that initial ripple it doesn't continue to propagate the problem to other people. You can't spread car stranding.
What's more interesting is the efforts the conservatives in the US have done to deny people their rights in this regard. And I'm not even talking about abortion. Conservatives have worked extra hard to deny Americans their rights when it comes to vaccinations and their private lives.
It's a real shame.
Is unborn baby innocent?
Conservatives have worked extra hard to deny Americans their rights when it comes to vaccinations and their private lives.
Example?
Broadly speaking, yes. The narrow point here is on how to deal with choices that hurt others.
On the prescriptive side, we could foreclose that choice. That's mandatory vaccination. On the reactive side, we can assign liability. That's the point of my analogy.
until u could prove that majority of infections are caused by the unvaxxed, both of your prescriptions are tyrannical.
We're discussing polio. Not Covid.
That’s the point. We have sterilising polio vaccines.