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Comment by sillystuff | Hacker News Reader

Sibling comment mentions using the stems of grain crops as natural drinking straws. This was done, in the past, and is the origin of the word "straws" for the modern plastic variety.

Historically, straws were also made from waxed paper.

The issue isn't that plastic straws were banned, it is that plastic straws were banned and no additional guidance was provided e.g., mandating paper straws with natural wax coatings. This combined with corporate greed led to companies putting out the most profitable product within constraints of the law-- health and environmental safety be damned.

The first paragraph of the following article describes both types of historical drinking straws:

https://www.encyclopedia.com/manufacturing/news-wires-white-...

edit: clarity

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Waxed straws used paraffin which is made from petroleum anyway, and they still get soaked through and collapse like the shitty PFAS coated straws. I know because they’re still made and I’ve used one, and the attic you posted mentions that draw back.

Straws made from plant stalks simply aren’t suited to mass distribution. They aren’t uniform, can’t easily be sanitized before packaging, they’re fragile, and still leak and get soaked.

The problem isn’t “corporate greed” it’s that there aren’t good alternatives to plastic for disposable straws.

An alternative would be to do without a straw. Is it so hard to drink without one?

The demand comes from car culture. Drinking in cars is difficult without lid and straw.

You ever try eating your fast food on the train/subway/bus. The same situation exists there too.

The problem isn't the cars. The problem is that we don't all live in some fantasy where people have time to sit down and eat their food and drink not on the go. If it wasn't the straws people would be complaining about the plastic coffee cup lids.

I haven't, my local public transit bans food and drink.

So how did people manage to eat on the go prior to the invention of straws and plastic lids?

The first hot dog man provided nice white gloves for his customers to hold the wieners and toppings with. They were supposed to be returned after use, but evidently they were too fancy and many customers would hang onto them. His wife suggested serving the wieners in a bun instead.

A lot of cultures have food wrapped in leaves (e.g. lotus or banana or corn). Like zongzi or tamales.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongzi

Is there any evidence to this? Or is the source just irrational car hate.

I just like a straw in an iced coffee while walking around.

I used to also but then I started thinking how obscene it is that the piece of plastic will be around for thousands of years just so I can have slightly more convenience for an hour or two.

I guess. It’s a minimal amount of material that’s made from a waste product anyway. Pottery and glass last just as long, or longer.

Something made of cellulose that breaks down more easily would be better, so long as it comes from agricultural byproducts.

*edit I’m saying this might be better because some light plastics like straws end in in storm drains and on road sides, so something that breaks down over time into organic compounds might be preferable.

Why would that be better? Plastic somewhere in a landfill doesn't bother anyone, does it? Not more than pottery and glass in a landfill.

And later cultures could dig it up and burn it, if they wanted to.

I mean marginally, you know in case it ends up in a river or something.

Maybe. But someone can cut themselves on glass shards, too..

Yeah, I’m fine with plastic straws.

So? How high is the total impact of manufacturing that piece of plastic? It probably pales compared to eg the coffee beans used. Or the cardboard cup.

Stones stay around for a long time, too, but no one cares. (And fire can destroy plastic easily.)

Except you see people drinking through straws while sitting down, too. So weird. I’ve always thought of straws as things only small children and maybe the disabled need. Like if you don’t even have the motor control to merely bring a glass up to your lips. I mean, even while walking and moving I somehow seem to be coordinated enough to sip liquid from a glass. I don’t know, maybe I’m an acrobat or something.

This might be a USA thing but a lot of times in restaurants they’ll bring me my drink with a straw in it and I can’t help but think “WTF do I look like a six year old?”

People drink coffee in cars all the time without straws. It's perfectly fine with just a lid and a small opening.

Drinks with takeaway food here have been using that style of cup for years now.

One legitimate use is people with handicaps. Otherwise I totally agree, just drink from the cup

Add toddlers to the list as well.

Asking people addicted to sugary drinks to forego straws entirely would result in serious dental issues.

I am drinking something without a straw right now and maybe I just have a sophisticated technique but I seem to be putting the liquid into my mouth back over my tongue to the same overall place it goes when using a straw?

This might be the most decadent problem ever:

- Straws use disposable plastic

- Replacement paper straws are coated with a toxic chemical

- Straws are only necessary so that we can drink sugary drinks

- Sugary drinks don't even taste that good, and also cause diabetes and tooth decay

The problem isn't really petroleum. We have more than enough petroleum for straws. And the carbon in paraffin is not in the atmosphere, which is good.

The problem with plastic straws, if you believe their opponents (whose claims I have not evaluated), is that they are persistent pollutants that harm animals. If paraffin-waxed paper straws are not, that's an improvement, petroleum or no.

Then we should put them in landfills.

You said it yourself, there aren't good mass distributable alternatives to plastic straws. I never thought banning them was a meaningful step towards sustainability, but maybe straws should be labor intensive and left for the service industry to figure out as opposed to being mass distribution-friendly. That'd be preferable to more PFAS, at the least.

Get a metal re-usable straw like the one used for yerba mate?

The issue is absolutely that plastic straws were banned for no rational reason!

Yes. At most they should have levied a tax on them in relation to their (alleged) impact. Outright bans are seldom as economically efficient as an appropriate tax.

Or just make it part of a general carbon tax.

> This combined with corporate greed led to companies putting out the most profitable product within constraints of the law-- health and environmental safety be damned

I didn’t expect capitalism to be Fermi’s Filter, but kind of makes sense.

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