One thing I am curious about is how many spare parts were produced - in small scale high precision manufacturing like this there's often multiples of components produced, with only the highest spec components shipped out. What could we cobble together with the rejects and leftovers? And what would that give us, results wise?
Measuring the sun shield alone was a 5+ year long project.
Now take this as a fact and next time someone makes an accusation use it to show a history.
Anyway, he's substantially if not completely correct and it's not hard to find sources backing up the connection between the HST and KH-11 spy satellites if you bother to look it up. In the sibling comment to yours, I provide a link to a book about NASA, hosted on NASA's website a few years ago, that says Hubble's primary mirror was fabricated using technology developed for the military, that a 2.4 meter mirror was specifically chosen to make that reuse possible. The mirrors were almost certainly manufactured by the same people on the same tools. Read the wiki page for the KH-11 and you'll see that the apparently similarities run deeper than that. Dimensions and general structure of the satellites are also believed to be the the same. None of this is fringe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-11_KENNEN
And if any of the above is too speculative or unsubstantiated for you, try this on for size: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_National_Reconnaissance_O...
And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMT_Observatory#Multiple_Mirro...
> "In addition, changing to a 2.4-meter mirror would lessen fabrication costs by using manufacturing technologies developed for military spy satellites."
https://web.archive.org/web/20110615091530/http://history.ms...
Especially the strong implication that Hubble is made out of lower tolerance parts, since they are rejects, is a claim that need significantly more evidence than what you provided here.
Pointing a telescope at something bright and nearby is easier than something very distant and dim, so the precision requirements are obviously in the opposite direction.
You're wrong. Between 1979 and 1998 the MMT Observatory used six repurposed spy satellite mirrors that had been donated by the NRO, manufactured for the cancelled KH-10. Furthermore in 2012 the NRO donated two unflown spy satellites to NASA, the mirrors from which may be used for the upcoming Roman Space Telescope. Spy satellite mirrors make great telescope mirrors.
> "manufactured parts from intelligence programs [...]"
As I point out above, the NRO has donated at least eight primary mirrors that were specifically manufactured for cancelled or unused spy satellites. The Hubble mirror may be another example of such, or it may have merely been fabricated by the same people.
> that were the rejects from those production lines".
That's the only dodgy part of his claim, but it's not that strange of a claim when you recall that Hubble's primary mirror infamously had a spherical aberration. I presume NASA didn't know about the aberration before they launched HST, otherwise they should have corrected for it on the ground instead of having astronauts correct it in space. But it doesn't seem completely outlandish that the NRO gave NASA mirrors they had previously deemed unsuitable for their own use.
As an example, the MMT observatory was so happy with the "cobble six telescopes together" design foisted upon them by the donation of the mirrors that within 8 years of completion they were officially[1] reporting they hoped to replace them with a single mirror by 1993. Honestly I think the MMT is the only telescope I've heard of where the main mirror was so bad they opted to replace it with a completely different design within 20 years.
Anyway, the Hubble mirror has a different focal length than the KH-11 so can't have been used as is, it would have to be reground and polished for the new curvature and so it would have been essentially just a mirror blank.
[1] https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/pdf/1988BAAS...20..366.
Well, it did ship with a faulty mirror after all :)
Just joking, I know this was a manufacturing error specific to Hubble which kinda proves it wasn't a reused part. I think the mirror would have a slightly different focal length anyway? But maybe 400k is far enough to be "infinity" even at that scale.
> I know this was a manufacturing error specific to Hubble which kinda proves it wasn't a reused part.
It was ground very precisely into the wrong shape during the final stage of manufacturing. But I don't think that proves anything one way or the other. Even if the mirrors were finished in unique ways, they may have started identical earlier in manufacturing.
It was said at the time that the aberration made the Hubble near-sighted and, indeed, was corrected with lenses. I had suspected, apparently incorrectly according to yours and others comments indicating that spy satellite mirrors are interchangeable with and used for astronomy without alteration, that the mistake was one of habit, because I figured they were ordinarily making near-sighted mirrors to specification to focus up to a few hundred miles rather than stellar or galactic distances. I am honestly am still having trouble accepting that a mirror designed for a telescope to look no further than a few hundred miles is identically focused to infinity precisely like similar telescopes that are designed to peer with a lower bound of at least millions of miles. But if you say so.
Consider the 2.4m lens to be the base of an isosceles triangle with a height of 100km, the edge of space and much lower than the satellite's orbit. This triangle has two angles of 89.9993 degrees. If the lens was 10cm thick and you wanted to taper the edges to match this angle, you'd need to bring in the near edge one micron, or about 1/50 of a human hair.
100km or 100,000 lightyears, they're still effectively straight away (focused to infinity).
That's just not what focal length means in the context of mirrors, the focussing happens by moving the secondary not by re-grinding the entire primary mirror or whatever it is you are imagining.
I'm guessing this is standard practise.
Serious question. Or can its interference be filtered out effectively?
Space telescopes these days are primarily being designed for observations that simply can't be done while in the atmosphere (eg the wavelengths JWST and NGR look at). The value of a space telescope in the same wavelength range as what ground based telescopes usually use would mainly benefit in terms of being able to have much longer exposures.
Disclaimer. Not a physicals or astronomer, just a enthusiastic backyard amateur astronomer who reads a lot about telescopes .
Even considering the effect of Starlink.
What starlink does is ruin part of the images, and if the thing you were interested in observing happens to be blocked by a starlink trail you're hosed: a thing literally blocked what you tried to see and you lost the nigh (because usually you get just a bit of the a night for your observation). Other things that ruins your night is clouds, so starlink effectively makes the weather at a site worse, only you find out after the night that it was all a waste.
To some extent you can plan around it, but as the mega constellations grow they'll have to avoid each other more frequently and there's no rules for how that shits coordinated, so you maybe you can know in advance that the night is wasted.
But the risk that a satellite is in an undocumented orbit by the time you try to observe will likely be very high in the future.
The length of the occlusion isn't very relevant when the thing going in front is orders of magnitudes brighter than what you are trying to observe.
Example: https://imgb.srgcdn.com/5i9W2KZAXha7p27YHHR2.png?width=1024 good luck extracting any data from behind that flash.
* LISA: LIGO In Space (Amazing!).
* LUVOIR: JWST but even bigger and UV.
https://www.wired.com/story/nasa-might-put-a-huge-telescope-...
It measures the parallax shift of stars, and is basically the one reliable way of directly measuring how far away a star is from us. Unfortunately, it's at L2, and therefore has a baseline of 1 AU. Another Gaia way out at 20AU would have capacities no Earth-based telescope could ever have.
https://www.space.com/nasa-telescope-far-side-of-moon.html
Though I'm not sure if it will ever be built.
In any event, many many areas to aim at, and relatively limited funding unfortunately.
If you compare how the JWST was folded, the width of the individual segments was already close to the maximum allowable diameter of the launch vessel. Leaving the rest of that launch vessel empty won't get you a much bigger final mirror.
Starship is 9 meters wide.
https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2021/11/17/science-upside...
How do you figure? A fleet of space telescopes research teams could interact with through an API without much cost and zero approval, would for sure advance science by a lot. I find it weird to see a statement like this, so maybe you have something else in mind. It's a stretch to go from "building a different one would give new classes of insights" to "having more people being able to use this thing we only have 1 of a kind is barely worth it".
100 % someone would point at the sun by accident and burn all the sensors within six months if access is unrestricted and the api is powerful.
In any case easy access to data will mostly result in data lying idle on disks somewhere because people are busy doing something more interesting. Analysing data is many months of work, and you don't get more months just because there is more data.
The Roman Space Telescope is a wide field instrument that is now under development and slated to launch in 2026 [1]. The Astro2020 decadal survey from the National Academies also recommended “a large (~6m diameter) Infrared/Optical/Ultraviolet space telescope” to observe exoplanets [2].
[1]: https://spacenews.com/nasa-selects-falcon-heavy-to-launch-ro...
[2]: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/resource/26141/interactive...
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/2022/nasa-s-webb-...
And the bill of materials is unlikely to have been the primary cost factor. Extensive research, development, and testing was performed.
So one james web space telescope costs 10 billion and take 20 years to build. However two space telescopes cost 10 billion 100 million and take the same twenty years to build. three would be 10B 200M + 20Y etc.
But this would of only worked if you built the second one at the same time you had the setup and test facilitys prepared for building the first one, I will be generous and assume the r & d is not so space and time critical.
Personally I think the main argument for making a second is that you are putting this thing in a location where it cannot be serviced. The parable of having all your eggs in one basket comes to mind.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/nasa-...
Roman is next in queue with many of its parts already built and operational around 2028.
Politically: no