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Comment by dylan604 | Hacker News Reader

I'm sorry, but I've been to the State Fair and comparing it as a Disney alternative is kind of a joke. State Fairs are glorified carnivals, and probably hire some actual carnys for the month they are open. To compare that to the rides at Disney is really a stretch. You could have at least suggested Six Flags like amusement park instead.

Your other points I'll agree with. State Fairs->Disney was just too much of a stretch for me to accept.

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I agree that it's an apples-to-oranges comparison, but maybe not in a way that casts Disney World in a positive light: it seems like the primary experience of Disney World is queueing for hours on rides that are references to things you already know, and paying a general "Disney tax" for being surrounded by familiar intellectual property. That's some people's thing, but it's not mine.

State and Country Fairs, on the other hand, are relatively diverse in their attractions: you can do the carnival stuff if you'd like, or you can:

* Peruse your state's agricultural and crafts competitions

* Go to the livestock auctions

* See live music by local artists

* Go the the trade halls and look at/purchase goods by local businesspeople

* Attend the live performances and competitions (my favorite county fair[1] has tractor pulls and pig races)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutchess_County_Fair

That's fine for you, the adult, but the kids are gonna wanna go to Disney.

I remember going to the state fair growing up, and it was excruciatingly boring waiting for the adults to finish looking at cows and trinkets. Whereas our family's trip to Disney was tailor-made for kids from start to finish, and honestly features pretty prominently among my favorite all-time memories.

To each their own! I loved the county fair as a child. But I wasn't much of a Disney kid anyways (unless we count properties that have since been absorbed into the Disney IP universe).

sheet, I remember being eight, and a tractor pull would have been just about the best thing ever. And I grew up twenty minutes from Disneyland. Loved it as a kid, but also loved the Pomona Fairgrounds -- LA County Fair -- and the drag strip

Yeah, IDK what County/State Fairs people here are talking about.

I often went to the Boulder County Fair in grad school and that had a Demolition Derby, which my kid would love.

Aesop would like a word with you...

Obviously it is not as good. Disney is literally the best, in the wealthiest nation in the entire world. But a state park will still entertain a family for a day or two, which may or may not be the true goal. Maybe you feel it is necessary to show your children the absolute best entertainment...pay up.

(I never went to Disney until I was 25, when I visited for free for 1/2 day thanks to a friend who was working there seasonally.)

Your "State Fair vs Disney" really struck a nerve with some people! But I agree with your point. I took your comment to generally mean: Things like Baseball games and Disney used to be economical and within reach to the common-everyday family with a tight budget, whereas now they're out of reach for many people. Part of that is because the attractions themselves are on an elevated level compared to days of yore. These same attractions used to be shittier than they are today! Shittier made them cheaper, and more accessible to the masses. If the common-everyday family on a tight budget is willing to settle for a little less-than-the-best experience, there are still plenty of options available in the form of State Fairs, State Parks, etc... Edit: Spelling.

Lol Disney is a cult! If you say anything bad about it people come out of the woodwork to defend the mouse. I was raised outside of the cult but I have dear friends that are a part of it. Totally rational people until you level any criticism towards Disney, which is especially crazy because most of these folks are normally anti corporate types, but Disney gets a pass for some reason.

Now, I don't enjoy amusement parks and never did, and don't feel strongly about Disney media, so it's just amusing to me, especially seeing it play out on HN

I'd rather go to a state park than Disney lmao

>I'd rather go to a state park than Disney lmao

How are we even equating a State Park with theme parks like Disney? It originally was suggested as State Fairs vs Disney. At least a typical State Fair has some sort of amusement rides that tilts in the direction of a Disney level theme park. While State Fair to Disney is at least apples and oranges, State Parks to Disney is like comparing fruits to anything else unrelated.

No kidding on the cult thing!

I grew up going to Disneyland, had an annual pass in the past and still live fairly close to it; it's an easy day trip. Almost went when the new Star Wars section opened - until I started to look at the pricing. Would have been over $100 a day for tickets (!), never mind all the other costs. The last time I went tickets were in the $80 a day range and I thought that was nuts.

Obviously they are getting people to still pay it - good for them; I'm out. Too many other things to do. And it warms my heart to see Universal in Orlando really taking on the mouse. Disney has killed Star Wars and Marvel - Thor's theater receipts are an utter joke. Disney has gotten complacent and lazy; maybe a good fleecing will wake them back up.

Growing up in Kansas I never got the Disney thing either. Disney was re-running their hits in theaters decades after they were originally released, and of course knocking out Don Knotts films like "The Apple Dumpling Gang". I thought it was a generational thing — like, of course my parent's generation are into Disney.

Moving to California though I was surprised by how much traction Disney continues to get with the follow-on generations.

I've got ambivalent feelings about Disney-- over the whole forever-copyright thing, trying to own our entire culture, etc.

Their IRL entertainment products-- the resorts/parks, travel, etc-- are super-premium. They are not a great value. And they are in a weird "bubble".

But man, your kids are entertained and customer service is good and everything is fun for everyone.

Every time I went to Disney in Florida, loads of rides were 30+ minutes, sometimes 1 1/2 hours.

My single thought was "?!", followed by wanting to leave.

I went to Disney in Tokyo during COVID, when they let only 5000 people a day in. That was about the level at which I thought it was fun, but it still felt kinda busy (fastpass rides still sold out).

I have a hard time imagining anyone could enjoy it in a normal situation.

Using a fast pass is a must at Disney. Little to no wait at every ride. Additionally staying at a Disney resort let’s you stay an hour after everyone else and then even without the fast pass you cruise thru every line.

Which theme park have you been to that has not had long lines to the rides?

I remember doing multiple rides on the same roller coaster without giving up my seat as a teen at Busch Gardens in Williamsburg. At peak times they had 20+ minute lines, but I never considered that as worthwhile.

Disney lines are horrific by comparison. It’s nice they add some theming while you wait, but you will have a far better time just skipping the rides unless you want to run to something at park open or schedule your day around fast pass.

Horror stories about the lines these days, unless you buy the extremely expensive passes that let you skip them, are why I'd hesitate to go even for free. I don't get why people pay for it. 55 minutes in a line for every 5 minutes of fun is a shit deal even if it's free, IMO. Sounds like hell.

Knott's Berry Farm on Thanksgiving used to be one of my family's best kept secrets. People have since caught on but you you used to be able to walk up to a ride and ride it within minutes.

And the fried chicken at Knott's - used to be amazing (late 70's/early 80's). Wonder if it's still a thing with them.

It's been a hot minute (like 20 years), but the Maryland Six Flags used to stay open until 8 or 9 PM in the summer and I could ride the coasters with basically no wait (waterpark was closed, though).

I've been to a number of parks where it seemed like average wait times were closer to 15 minutes rather than 1-3 hours. In fact, other than Disney or Universal Studios that's generally been the norm, and for a while I would go to theme parks multiple times a year.

Cartmanland /s

I got extremely lucky going to Disneyland during a massive off-peak week, right at the beginning of September but just after the Labor Day holiday. Every ride was practically walk up. The only real wait was for the new Star Wars ride which had only recently opened. My wife and I managed to see everything in both parks in a day and a half at a pretty leisurely pace.

Another good time to go is early January, just after school starts up. It's not hot, and it's not crowded.

Does anyone else think Disney’s rides suck, too?

One of the points in the article was that there are a lot more rides at Disney now. But my thought was, "yeah, but you can still only ride 5 of them in a day!"

For me it's more about just how boring state fairs are. Maybe if you have young kids that want to pet a goat or are really into fried oreos on a stick.

You said "state park" which is a very different thing than what GP was talking about. I like Disney alright but spending time in nature at a state park can be just as fun IMO. State fair though? Count me out.

You think the Disney Cult is bad, try suggesting that one can live a full life without ever traveling to Europe

I have; I wasn't impressed.

>I'd rather go to a state park than Disney lmao

Same here, even as a kid I preferred the state park. I've never been to Disney, but I've never liked theme parks. I do like water parks though.

Honestly, they weren't shittier, they were better before every red cent was squeezed out of the consumer. The appeal of Disneyland has really waned for us over the years and it's not just the pricing.

That's a good point. I think shittier vs. better is largely a matter of subjective personal preference. And I would kind of agree that they were better before every red cent was squeezed out of the consumer. However, that's speaking to the experience. But in terms of facilities, I think things are better now; paved parking lots over dirt parking lots, padded seats over concrete benches, individual urinals with stall dividers over troughs, etc.... Using Disney as an example (I've never been), I'm sure that the facilities and hardware of the park today are way above where they were decades ago (even if the experience is arguably much worse).

Disneyland definitely had troughs in the men's rooms, even in recently-constructed buildings. I have been to Disneyland nearly every year since 2015.

Also the annual passes, that lots of locals use to make multiple trips per year affordable, have been increasing in price. Disney wants their visitors to spend money, and those who economize using annual passes have proven to be on the whole, not the most advantageous customers.

Yeah, if they were shittier back then it was because, as a country, culturally, we just had worst taste. I mean, TV dinners, polyester ... I could go on.

Disney is really overrated as a park.

I live in NH and the local amusement park, called Canobie Lake, has more rides and ride systems than the Magic Kingdom. The "themeing" isn't as nice but it's a fraction of the cost.

I like the Disney Parks, but you're really paying a heavy premium for IP and a potential visit with a Princess. For most people your local Six Flags will be a far better value for the dollar with not much of a dimunition of the experience.

Get off my porch.

Man let people have fun. I've been to Disney World a couple of times. It's not that fun with all the crowds and lines and such. We all have our own idea of fun. Mine is with friends and families having a low stress day at a water park, nature hike, minor league sports event and not worrying about bragging rights after the "adventure".

To me it really depends on your metrics to determine which is "best". If you're really into Disney stories and the Disney experience then of course there is no substitute. However, I find I get a good bit more enjoyment from other parks which focus more on the rides themselves instead of the stories, so parks like Kings Island, Cedar Point, Six Flags, etc. are far more enjoyable. They're also usually a lot cheaper and you can end up riding more rides.

There's a rabbit hole to go down here but the short of it is that Disney's willingness to sell out in recent years have allowed other parks to steal its claim as the best park in the world, particularly German parks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL_ZVJMF2rA&t=795s

Note that there's quality creep in any established institution. Disneyland's attractions on opening day weren't all that different from a local carnival:

https://touringplans.com/disneyland/attractions/opening-date...

Favorites like Pirates of the Caribbean and the Haunted Mansion didn't open until the late 1960s, a decade after the park did, and Space Mountain & Thunder Mountain didn't open until the late 1970s.

I've noticed that my friends who like Disneyland are "accept no substitute" types. They will even talk down Legoland.

So I wonder if it's even meaningful to them to talk about alternatives at all. Many of them are mainly visiting that one special place for sure every year, so it's not too terrible to save the money either.

It's these types that the park caters to and a significant part of why Disney can charge so much more than a "comparable" theme park. Personally, I've done the theme park thing as a kid and later with my kid and have no interest in going to one ever again. My county fair is this weekend. It's free and less than 2 miles from my home. I doubt I'll attend this year but do go about every other year. That's plenty of that atmosphere for me.

Now get off my lawn.

I will say that because they are permanent as opposed to occasional, theme parks have more selection in terms of rides like roller coasters or any sort of water rides. And there is a whole world of difference in affordability and hecticness between Disney and something local like Hersheypark.

My family is going to Dollywood this summer during a visit to Tennessee. A one day ticket is $84, but a 3 day ticket is only $114. So, yes, Disneyland is "accept no substitutes" pricing.

I would argue that Disneyland should be even more expensive. As Yogi Berra once said (paraphrasing) "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." People that simultaneously complain about Disneylands price and the crowds are delusional.

> People that simultaneously complain about Disneylands price and the crowds are delusional.

perhaps in a simplified model of the world in which the only way of allocating limited resources is via a pure free market, and we assume that there's no way to satiate more demand

just off the top of my head for the latter: an online pre-sign-up and scheduling system with phones or wireless wristbands that assigns you times for your preferred rides, should help level demand and avoid bottlenecks, and thus increase throughput, and thus increase turnover, and thus increase daily attendance capacity

essentially MRP but the people are the materials and the rides are the workstations

Uh, so... That's basically Disney World right now. You must reserve your visit to the park, and there's a paid system (Genie+) to compete for ride times without waiting in line.

And there's a really good video someone did on the evolution and systems engineering behind the Genie+ / FastPass system:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yjZpBq1XBE

I went to Dollywood as a kid. One of the "attractions" was fishing out of a literall barrel for perch IIRC. that's the memory that stuck with me. not the singing and the dancing and other things. fish in a barrel. can't make that up

But in the spirit of what the OP is saying, most people have never been to something like the State Fair, let alone Disney. Disney is for the rich. The State Fair is amazing from the perspective of those who have been to neither.

Disney was a thing that my pretty average middle-class immigrant family was able to do. We would drive down from Northern California, stay at a cheap motel, and then go buy a general admission ticket. It was never a “for the rich” vacation.

In the last 10 years, Disneyland has become an activity for wealthy childless millennials, which is almost certainly driving up the costs and turning Disney from a middle class activity into a wealthy one. Disney, just like any other corporation is gladly taking their money.

I think that's mostly true. A middle-class family can still afford Disney, it just becomes a once-in-a-childhood thing instead of an every-year thing. Every year trips have become something for the wealthy.

Pretty similar for pro sports. Lots of my friends take their kids to minor league baseball - for the kid, it can be better, as they often have specific kid activities. I've always been shocked at the price for Redskins tickets/parking/etc. Nationals is a bit less expensive, but still not cheap.

Yes, my kids love our local AA baseball team. Tickets < $15, various bounce houses and generic carnival type things for the kids, but something to break up the game for a bit when they get tired of sitting. No idea what an equivalent MLB outing would cost, but I don't care either as the closest one is 3-3.5 hours away, vs. 20 minutes to our AA ballpark.

Orioles are dirt cheap if you want to take the MARC up for some baseball, though. And the MARC itself is 7 bucks

Do they still have the very cheap but surprisingly good hotdogs right outside the stadium that you can then bring in, which keeps prices inside somewhat in check?

(Reminiscing over the $5 student tickets available with college ID in the early 2000's)

Nats tickets aren't bad, it's parking/transit and then food/drink that are the killers. I guess you can skip the concessions, but that's part of the fun, IMO.

Word, baseball isn't the same without a nice cold beer.

Never been but the parks are apparently constantly fully booked out. And opening new parks is apparently a nightmare trying to secure land.

Not really sure what other options there are. People need to stop valuing Disney parks so highly. Or don’t and accept the price.

>Disneyland has become an activity for wealthy childless millennials

What on earth would be the appeal for people that do not have children? If I want rollercoasters I'll go to six flags.

Frankly it has nothing to do with “being a kid”. There is a shit-ton for adults with a keen eye:

Impeccably landscaped grounds. Heavily themed environments (not even the trash cans are left unthemed). Care and thought put into the immersive experience, sight lines, smell, music, etc. Christ some of the live musicians (Dixieland, barbershop, the Dapper Dans, etc) are worth it on their own. Its a fantastic place to just walk around (assuming not hot and crowded) and devour the sensory experience.

Not for the cynical of course. You have to just give in and let it all in.

If you’re the type to just trounce through an area without taking in the details that sit before you, it’s not the place for you. If you’re the type to admire the street lamps, flowers, insanely well-maintained painted woodwork, etc it’s the place for you.

Because adults are large children and experiences like Disney are way better when you have adult money, no parents to keep you in line, and no kids to be responsible for.

Like damn, people in this thread are acting like adults can’t like Star Wars and Frozen. Do you feel the same way about music festivals? Seeing your favorite bands and buying merch.

The prevailing line in this thread is that it’s seemingly childish, immature, #cringe to genuinely like and be excited for things.

IP-based nostalgia.

The people paying are really into Disney.

People will go to Epcot and “drink around the world” for example

A lot of adults are stuck in arrested development.

>never been to something like the State Fair,

Schools get a day off each year for Fair Day in the North Texas area. Obviously, you don't have to go to the fair, but each student gets a free ticket, and "most" people typically went at least once during their school years. The "most" people seems pretty broad brush in my experience.

It could just be my state's state fair, but with 2 kids, I could easily spend more money at the state fair to keep the, entertained all day compared to disney The only thing that would make disney more expensive is the hotel cost. By the time you pay 20 bucks for 10 tickets that the kids use up on rides and games in 30 minutes, because the carousel cost 3 tickets per rider. That game is 2 tickets per round and that ride over there is 4 tickets per rider.

That isn't to say Disney is cheap. It isn't cheap either.

Sure, if I define Mickey as entertainment, the Yankees as baseball and the Grand Canyon as nature than anything else will be a pale knock-off.

I have great memories of doing all that stuff too but I also remember standing in line in 90 degree heat for over an hour, seeing grown men getting into fist fights over a game and the majority of nature on display being forests of selfie sticks.

Point is that you can do that stuff once in a while and then step back, figure out what you like and don't like about the experiences and then find cheaper local alternatives that are pretty amazing too.

If your goal is to spend a nice summer night walking around with the family, seeing interesting stuff while eating churros and taking the occasional tea cup ride then you don't exclusively have to pay Disney $1,000+ to do it.

>Grand Canyon as nature than anything else will be a pale knock-off.

I've been to the Grand Canyon as well as other canyons like Palo Duro and similar. However, they all do pale in comparison as a cheap knock-off and none are as grand as The Grand Canyon. If you're into outdoorsy type things, you cannot not be moved by it. It is one thing that is very much appropriately named.

This is not to say that any of the other parks are not worth going, state or federal, but if you're a canyon and The Grand Canyon exists, just know you will only ever at best be second chair.

Even Copper Canyon in Mexico?

Is it copper colored or have copper in it? If not, then it's not named as well ;P

But no, I have not been to that canyon.

I wouldn't want to miss either one, personally. Though I would think Copper Canyon would be a much more interesting multi-day hike. They are not substitutes for each other.

To be fair, I went to a Yankees game for $30 last week and had okay seats. Food and drinks are expensive Yankee Stadium, but you can bring snacks in, so it's actually pretty affordable as an occasional activity for a family.

> And people expect more exciting and high quality things now, because they have seen a lot (comparably).

Eh I would rather go to a state fair than Disney. Its less commercial and more down to earth. I went to Disney, and I don't really get it. There's cartoon characters and some rides with huge lines that are maybe better than the local amusement park.If Disney tickets were maybe $30 and there was 1/5 the number of people. But its just a tourist trap.

Yeah I agree. I’m not sure it even makes sense to compare state fairs and especially county fairs to theme parks; they’re aiming at a different experience altogether. They have more kitsch like fried butter and tractor pulls, the ground tends to be just dirt or whatever pavement was already there, and it’s all temporary so they feel more like a community event.

In contrast there are plenty of regional parks even lesser known than Six Flags like Adventureland, Kings Island, Dorney Park. These are much more similar to Disneyland (albeit scaled down) than they are to a state fair.

Hah yeah I agree

State Fairs can be "fun" (for some definition) but it's very different from Disney

I mean, they're vastly different but I'd much rather go to a state fair or state park. Disney is not objectively better.

I disagree. Disney are EXPERTS on making magic happen. I fought vacationing at Disney tooth and nail, it was so expensive. It was one of those life long memory vacations that will sustain you when the kids are gone. My fair memories are far less intense years later.

Okay. I mean, that's something you like better. That does not mean it's objectively better.

Ah yes, corporate-sponsored, mandated happiness with childrens characters smoothed over for maximum appeal/profit. The perfect salve for these troubled times

Give me the carnies any day of the week!

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