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Comment by cosmodisk | Hacker News Reader

All those platforms sound nice when you are on the receiving end of things and not the one delivering. I used to go to a local McDonald's in London once in a while and when you see 15 Deliveroo guys queuing up with helmets, completely exhausted and miserable, then you realise the cost of that burger being delivered whilst you sit on a sofa. Or Amazon prime delivery, where the guy has to do so many drop offs that he literally runs from the van to your apartment...

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Just to push back against this view a bit with one anecdote -- I'm still in contact with an ex-colleague of mine, who I used to work with in retail. He now works for various delivery apps. And according to him it's vastly superior to any retail job he worked previously and whenever I mention any of the negative press these apps receive and query for his opinion he usually just rolls his eyes. He gets to control when and how long he works, he gets to ride his bike (which he loves) and pay is much better than any retail job he would get in london (and he would be looking at retail manager considering his experience). So in that picture of local McDonald's in London, consider that perhaps those guys are actually much happier than everyone else working in that store (including the McDonald's managers). Obviously that's just an anecdote of one person, I don't actually have a strong opinion on this.

...until the day he gets injured, bike stolen, etc etc etc - and these jobs are also unsustainable because they're not saving enough for retirement, i.e. when your body is no longer able to compete with younger bodies.

Serious question, have you ever been poor in your life or worked a retail job?

Yes, many, I have stories. Inspired me to take school seriously. But this isn't about me.

Obviously, people working retail jobs have limited options to make money. But that's also not the point.

The point is that gig work sounds good until you need worker's comp.

I absolutely believe what your ex colleague says/thinks of his job is exactly what he means, however he's comparing it with a retail job,which,in most cases are pretty crap. I also understand that even if the job may look crap, it can still be a huge improvement for the person who's doing the job. I've done enough crappy and good jobs in my life to know the difference, but I appreciate not everyone would have such a perspective.

> , he gets to ride his bike (which he loves)

delivery guy i know has to, well, deliver and thete was nowhere to lock the bike. bike got stolen, 1 grand down the drain. he us borrowing a bike from a friend as otherwise he can't earn

My (now ex) brother-in-law had to pivot from waiting tables to a delivery job. A positive benefit for him is that when he has the kids, he can bring them along and spend some time with them.

That’s something that you’d take for for granted if you work at a laptop all day.

I did have some people delivering stuff for me with their kids/family inside the van. This is not OK in any shape or form. I understand why it's like this, but it doesn't make it any better.

One of the greatest aspects of working from home is getting to see my young son all day. When programming or other focus work I have to isolate, but for meetings he joins me and it's a lot of fun.

My job allows and supports this, and it's one of the biggest reasons I stay with them.

That job is arguably nicer than e.g. flipping the burgers or cleaning the kitchen at that McDonald's. The service industry has a lot of hidden jobs performed by hard working people that just aren't very glamorous. We're in a market with very low unemployment rate: people can choose what they do within some reason. Lots of people are choosing to take gigs like this rather than work as a dishwasher, or waiting tables. IMHO that's basically people voting with their feet.

Of course things in the US are a bit worse than in Europe. People have to work multiple jobs there just to pay the rent. That shitty job at McDonald's is not enough. So you have fully employed people that do that that find it necessary to take some gigs on top of that because their regular job just isn't paying enough. That's not the gig economy that caused that; something else was broken there long before that became a thing. Like the lack of a minimum wage, the erosion of the middle class, etc. Things looked pretty grim the last time I visited San Francisco. Abject poverty right next to extreme wealth. Whatever caused that, it's not Uber or delivery companies.

Here in Berlin, Uber drivers are just normal taxi drivers. There are a lot of people on bikes delivering stuff and they seem to be OK with that. Seems popular with mostly younger people. And of course Amazon Prime and other deliveries are a huge thing here as well.

The gig economy is definitely putting some pressure on the social insurance system and some countries are better than others at forcing these companies to treat their people fairly. Unions certainly don't like it that there people earning money outside of sectors they control. But overall, I think it's a system that could work longer term and not just a fad. We just need to figure out how to get these people insured against the inevitabilities in life: sickness, retirement, and unemployment.

This is not a fast-delivery problem though, this is a governmental/cultural problem.

If we could have fast delivery with rested, happy workers, then I see no problem with the fast delivery itself.

The question is, why are people doing these jobs if they are exhausted and miserable? Is the pay good? Are the (flexible?) working hours better than elsewhere? Why is it preferable to other jobs?

it's because if they don't have a (second) job they won't be able to afford to eat. or be housed.

This is the big issue. All of these "businesses" ignore the human cost and just assume an exploitable population begging to not lose their housing.

This is a problem that exists all the way through the product lifecycle with these services and leads to GrubHub offering free lunches in NYC but not telling any restaurants so an already stretched to breaking industry gets slammed with no warning.

All these companies are designed around an exit not a viable business.

Or living next door to a dark store. Because everything has to be delivered in 20 minutes they are putting them in residential areas.

Regulators are fighting back though, which some of these companies also note as a reason for getting out of the market. In the Netherlands Amsterdam is banishing dark stores from residential zones, one or two of these locusts specifically mentioned that development upon suspending their efforts.

This sounds like a moral concern? Lazy people who want a burger should be required to walk down and get it themselves? I mean, it's not like this is some kind of new thing, where people with money choose to pay other people to do some unpleasant bit of work they themselves don't want to do.

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