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Comment by paxys | Hacker News Reader

No large tech company contract actually says that, and if it did it would anyways be unenforceable. At most they can claim whatever you do on company time and using company resources. It's a myth that every side project you work on and every thought you have in the shower is automatically owned by your company.

Companies sometimes do require you to disclose the work that you do off the clock, but that's just so they can review it for conflicts. I have worked at multiple FAANGs and known lots of people who had side businesses or consulting gigs, all completely above board.

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You are 100% wrong.

Yes, you can submit for permission, and you have to. Because those clauses are in there. And if you think you will survive a legal battle with a FAANG that is your employer... well good luck to you.

At Google there is a process where if you want to submit e.g. a patch to a FOSS project on github, you need to send it to some team that reviews it for conflicts of interest first. There is another process for releasing your own software publicly where you need to ask permission to retain ownership of the IP because the default is for it to go to Google. When you join, you need to list IP that you owned before joining in order for it to be exempt from the process.

I have heard that these clauses are unenforceable, yeah, but that doesn't mean that these employees (who seem to mostly be fairly junior) aren't going to be in hot water if this page gets back to whatever part of the company is responsible for attempting to enforce them.

Is there case law on this? The CA moonlighting law heavily implies that a huge company could claim to own nearly anything you produce (as an exception that proves the rule).

> (a) Any provision in an employment agreement which provides that an employee shall assign, or offer to assign, any of his or her rights in an invention to his or her employer shall not apply to an invention that the employee developed entirely on his or her own time without using the employer s equipment, supplies, facilities, or trade secret information except for those inventions that either:

> (1) Relate at the time of conception or reduction to practice of the invention to the employer s business, or actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development of the employer; or

> (2) Result from any work performed by the employee for the employer.

A huge company like Google can claim nearly anything relates to their business, so they could trigger (1) even if you don't do that kind of work for them.

In practice, I agree they usually don't care about side projects and wouldn't take action even if you didn't get an exception, but there is substantial risk if you are contributing to a significant project that ever attracts their gaze.

There is an appendix in CA that is required to be included in employment contracts (and applies even if they exclude it) that states an exception. Any work done by the employee cannot be claimed unless it:

1) Is done on work time, or 2) on work property (the office), or 3) using work equipment (an employer-provided laptop, for example, or their IP)

This provision is a bedrock for why startups became such a huge thing in CA: people could work on side projects that turned into startups and not worry about ownership by their employer.

> It's a myth that every side project you work on and every thought you have in the shower is automatically owned by your company.

It's a myth... until the lawyers come round and start serving papers on your ass.

You have been watching too much Suits.

The author of Nginx had his offices raided by the cops because his employer was pursuing criminal copyright infringement claims over Nginx, which was written while he was an employee of that company.

Do you want to hazard law enforcement busting your door down and raiding your home or office, even if you think you might prevail in court?

> The author of Nginx had his offices raided by the cops because his employer was pursuing criminal copyright infringement claims over Nginx, which was written while he was an employee of that company.

...and that was also in Russia.

OK, so your employer might only go for your nuts with criminal action in a corrupt oligarchy. Like Russia. Or... the... USA.

You’re incorrect You haven’t looked closely enough. Many of the tech companies do require signing documents like this. And they’re enforceable in some states & not others.

Do you have any example(s) of cases where those were enforced since you claim they are enforcable in some places?

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