Hacker News Reader

Comment by hirundo | Hacker News Reader

It's unfortunate that the article doesn't mention the great villain of sleep debt, caffeine. The substance we use to wake up is the one taking away our deep sleep.

https://michaelpollan.com/books/caffeine-how-coffee-and-tea-...

View on HN

As NNT says: coffee in the morning, chamomile in the afternoon, sweet wine at night.

Avoid alcohol before bed. In any quantity. It is incredibly disruptive to sleep cycles. You will fall asleep, but quality is not good. There is a reason many studies use it to disrupt REM.

> Avoid alcohol before bed.

Avoid alcohol, period. Your body and mind will thank you.

But good wine is delicious, so do enjoy alcohol (in moderation).

It is delicious but no amount is safe.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcoho...

Yes, understood. There are many things in life for which no amount is safe.

So do drink wine in moderation, if you enjoy it like me. Wine is one of the finest things in life. Coffee also is.

A joyless life of maximum safety is not worth living.

That is a good conclusion, I agree.

> It is incredibly disruptive to sleep cycles.

Extremely apparent too. It'll put me out real fast, but I'll be awake in a few hours and then repeat a few more times till the sun is up and you gave a splitting headache.

What is the time of day, before which, it is possible to drink a glass of wine and not have REM significantly disrupted?

I think you need a couple hours per unit (a 5% ABV beer, etc). You have ti have fully processed the alcohol and given your brain chemicals a little time to settle down. So you could conceivably drink a few beers or glasses of wine during the day and stop in the early evening and be mostly fine. But right before bed if it hits your first sleep cycle it is kind of a disaster because the whole first cycle alpha, to beta or however it sequences gets messed up and a lot of people float between REM and deep sleep without getting either in the first half of their sleep (assuming its 8 hours).

Why all the downvotes? Caffeine definitely messes up my sleep

For me, it was more like the American education system

Is it problematic if you drink caffeine at all? Or only if you drink it late in the afternoon or night?

Caffeine's half life is around 5 hours[1], I'd say it's fine if you drink it in the morning.

I'm quite sensitive to caffeine and I struggle to sleep if I drink coffee any time after noon. It's a pity because I love the taste of coffee and Oolong tea :(

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223808/

There's variability in caffeine's half life from person to person, so everyone should experiment. I only drink it in the first 3 hours of my day, but even then, if I drink too much it negatively impacts sleep onset.

can't you just drink decaf?

I do! but decaf tastes different :p

Edit: also not all cafes have decaf or they have limited options where I live.

I recommend the house decaf from Devicion or Linea. I’ve tried every high end decaf on the market and those are the winners so far

I love coffee, but it doesn't wake me up, either at the morning or at the end of the day.

I suppose it affects each person differently.

Depends on a lot of factors. detoxing completely takes days/weeks.

Thanks for the recommendation. Added to Audible!

too bad this is only available in audio format

I get text, but I’m also an NYT subscriber.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com