Comment by nonrandomstring | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nonrandomstring | Hacker News Reader

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Whether or not this is a good list, I find the topic very interesting. For more exercise I've started to increase the range of my usual hikes, from just mooching around a 10 mile radius of home to some much more ambitious yomps out into wilderness. Being alone out there obviously raises thoughts about safety.

Everyone knows I hate "smartphones" with a passion. For possible emergencies I carry a powered-down (battery flipped) Nokia wax-sealed in a dry-sack. Regardless, the cell coverage can't be relied upon and I don't fully trust it.

Lately I started looking at alternatives, and considering the fascinating array of features some devices have.

Stand alone GPS devices with loadable OSM maps seem really useful. Emergency beacons seem to fill a need for the bad case where you really need rescue. But there's also powerful handheld radios and sat phones. The landscape of affordable civilian RF gear seems to be changing fast.

What kit do people pack for hiking? Or what gadgets do you wish existed?

Get a Garmin inReach mini: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/592606 The key feature of the Garmin is that it has two way communication (on the cheap model you can use a slow character at a time typing, or link to your smartphone with BLE for a proper keyboard).

Two way communication with rescuers is an absolute game-changer in real emergencies. You can tell rescuers exactly what happened and the conditions of people, the environment, etc. to expect. Without two way comms rescuers only see a ping from a beacon and have to first send out a small team to recon the area and find you, then they have to radio back to get a proper rescue going. With two way comms you can short circuit that recon and tell them exactly how many people are injured, if you need a helicopter right now, if you're safe to spend a night, etc. Rescuers can keep you in the loop of progress too like if they're delayed from weather, etc.

I listen to a great podcast about climbing accidents (the sharp end: https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/2022 ) and every single episode that involves a rescue mentions that having two way communication with the search and rescue team was critical in getting a fast and safe rescue. Don't bother with anything else beside a satellite communication device that can talk both ways IMHO.

Two-way communication is great even outside of emergencies. A couple times, I’ve used it to tell my check-in person that I was going to miss my scheduled return time, but didn’t need help. Another time, I used it when I was at home to text my partner about a flash flood warning in their area (backcountry).

Another vote for the InReach here.

I'm a ham operator but I don't bring my radio for emergency purposes. In Europe ham usage is so low it's hard to find someone to talk to at the best of times. Not something I'd rely on in an emergency.

Perhaps in the US things are better. But here no. The InReach is a better option and it didn't even require a license (most 400Mhz PLBs do over here!)

I'm amazed that people willingly go on multi day hikes or sailing trips, regularly, without satellite communication.

Some of them might be wearing multiple hundred dollar jackets and boots and can probably afford them without even needing to think of the cost.

I can only assume they either don't know they exist or don't particularly want them? Do they enjoy the extra adrenaline of not having one?

I don't know about the adrenaline, but certainly part of the attraction of hiking in the backcountry was acceptance of that risk. Not much different than skateboarding, if there was a perfectly safe way to do it, I would have done something else.

When I hiked alone, I never told anyone where I was going, and I wasn't going to ask someone to come rescue me in a helicopter from my poorly advised climb or snowshoe hike. If I got hurt, I was in trouble.

You took the gear you thought you needed to make it back alive, meaning backups for most of that gear, and you knew how to use them. A compass and map isn't a drop in replacement for a GPS, if you're going to use a compass you need to know how to use it. And so on.

But yeah, the risk was certainly part of the fun of it.

DNR.

Afaik, historically they were prohibitively expensive with service.

Only in the last ~10(?) years have companies cut offerings in a price point catering to the backcountry crowd.

True but PLBs have always been affordable. Unlike InReach they don't even have a service fee. Though in some countries a local telecom license is needed but I know a lot of folks just ignore that. After all the only time you use it is when you're alone in an emergency and if there's a telecom regulator around you'd be happy to see them :)

I've never used a PLB myself. I have my ham licence and these days I use an InReach because hams are spread too thin these days.

Honestly... Baofeng UV-5R is still my go-to for emergency usage... program in GMRS/FRS/Coast Guard frequencies as well as the simplex HAM frequencies.

Sadly the new generation ones and the GT-5R which is cleaner spectrum-wise are all software limited to only HAM frequencies so in case of an emergency that one would less useful.

While I still prefer more expensive, weatherproof ham handhelds, the UV-5R is almost throw-away cheap, making it easy to keep a couple on hand to hand out. Also program in at least any local NOAA weather stations.

A bonus is FM broadcast reception. Was a real help keeping my mother-in-law occupied once we lost power and internet during a tropical storm.

It’s illegal to have a radio that transmits on both FRS/GMRS as well as the ham bands. FCC Part 95 (GMRS) & Part 97 (Amateur) spell this out quite well. Baofeng has played fast and loose with these requirements in the past. The newer radios just fall in line with FCC rules.

For an emergency I personally would disregard FCC regs. I don't think the rescuers will care either. Certainly local law enforcement won't care. Out in the wilderness it is unlikely one will be causing interference using a few extra watts. I say this as someone who used to pump out a few thousand extra watts. People generally get into trouble when they are playing around on frequencies they should not be on and causing interference, especially with businesses or law enforcement. Prolonged interference is what draws the attention of the FCC via complaints, usually because of harmonics from cheap radios. I should add that the FCC are few in number and spread very thin. It is extremely difficult to get them to respond to interference complaints unless the complainant are a big business.

The hams tend to be "lawful good"[0] types. It's pretty alien to my way of thinking[1] but that sort would rather follow the law to a bad outcome as opposed to violating it to achieve a good one. If you are in mortal danger please do whatever you can to obtain help.

[0]https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulGood

[1]https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticGood

I am a pragmatic minimalist and have +2 to agility.

But I agree that ham's tend to be "lawful good" as you say. That is why I generally do not get along with them but have always had ham gear. I've had the FCC sitting right next to me monitoring what I do and to my surprise they did not care at all that my friends and I were running power since we did not interfere with anyone. I have also had the FCC suggest/imply that we resolve issues with locals that were shutting down some trucker channels since they were too busy. This was in the 70's and 80's. I'm sure they must have evolved by now.

You can use any freq in a legit emergency. But it requires “safety of life and protection of property”. You can’t just use it willy nilly.

The reason hams are anal about this is because the FCC grants us frequencies as a privilege. If we abuse that privilege they can easily take it away.

You can’t just use it willy nilly.

Agreed, that is what I was trying to convey.

As an aside, I sat in police dispatch while two of the senior officers were playing light-sabers with their HT's on transmit to create feedback "music" for the dispatcher yes on the repeater main frequency of whom was the biggest software pirate I knew at the time. Kids will be kids.

It's not illegal to have but it is illegal to misuse. However, this is a post about radios for emergency use and most readings of the HAM and GMRS rules state that emergency use is allowed.

It is illegal to have. Part 95 requires GMRS radios to have pre-programmed frequencies (no keypad) and a non-removable antenna. No ham radio meets those requirements.

Since people are having trouble believing this, here are some relevant regulations:

CFR § 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification.

(a) Each GMRS transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate in the GMRS) must be certified in accordance with this subpart and part 2 of this chapter.

CFR § 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification.

... No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service....

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D...

Incorrect, there is no such requirement under the law. Here's a GMRS capable device with a keypad and pre-programmed frequencies.

https://www.amazon.com/BAOFENG-UV-5X-Repeater-Rechargeable-H...

It is completely legal to own a Baofeng UV-5R or purchase a GMRS version of it which has a keypad. It is completely legal to program GMRS/FRS frequencies into either radio and it is legal to broadcast on either one in case of emergency due to Part 95 Subpart E (c) (3) which states:

> Any individual who holds an individual license may allow anyone to operate his or her GMRS station if necessary to communicate an emergency message.

Garmin’s InReach products are great for this. Emergency button, two-way texts, all satellite based, so basically full global coverage. They can also allow you to share your semi real-time location with friends and family, if that’s useful to you.

Yes the Garmin stuff looks great. For some of those features you seem to need a renewable monthly subscription. I'm looking for products that build the connection cost into the one-off price, not out of cheapness but for more reliability/security than a subscription. Would be awful to finally need an emergency device and find the data plan had expired (as is now the case with phone networks that destroy your number when it goes unused regardless of how much credit you've charged it with). That's specifically one of the cost models I want to move away from. The only thing I should need to pack is some spare batteries.

It's annoying but Garmin has a plan where you can pause it when you're not using it. It's something like $5 a year when not in use, then you flip it on (just go to the website) and it charges you the rate and gives you full service again. So if you're not using it in the winter you don't have to pay the big regular monthly cost.

Unfortunately you will not find a satellite comm device without some kind of monthly service plan, it's how they base their business models.

Get the Garmin inreach, it is absolutely worth it and two way communication is critical in a real rescue situation.

Kinda wish there was a pricing model along the lines of "top-up with $X of credit that is guaranteed not to remain valid for 5+ years, and charge it $100 for the first message, and $0.10/message thereafter for the next month, with the ability to send a predetermined test to the company server at a cost of $1/test", or something like that. Surely this kind of a model must be viable at some price point?

I prefer a standalone PLB (personal locator beacon) when backcountry skiing. Smaller, lighter, more reliable, no subscription fee.

That's what I got as well: ACR ResQLink -- you register it with NOAA every 2 years, I can't find anywhere listing the price, I think it's $50 or $75. It then talks to NOAA satellites to send out your distress call and location. The device itself when I got it was $250, looks like they are $350ish now.

The downside is there is basically nothing other than "I need rescue" that you can do with the device. You turn it on and a rescue team shows up.

Do people get charged after they get rescued? I'd imagine it's pretty expensive to send a team out into the wilderness, do they recoup the costs from the rescued?

UK: pretty sure you dont get charged for anything execpt possibly ambulance/hospital if you are not from UK or EU, but I suspect it’s so unusual most NHS staff wouldn’t know how to bill you. Definitely no charge for sea rescue by the RNLI even though a typical shout for a Severn class ALB will burn £1-2k in diesel fuel.

Rescue insurance isn't hard to come by or particularly expensive for the group of people who spend a lot of time outdoors. The American Alpine club, for instance, offers rescue insurance with a membership, dollar amounts vary with membership "type."

I believe if it's a legit emergency, then no. If they find you obviously were clowning around, yes.

Most SAR teams are not dedicated to SAR, but do other tasks (firefighting, soldiering, etc) so SAR operations kinda fall under training.

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