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Comment by JonathanFly | Hacker News Reader

>Oh no! Due to a construction error, a trolley is stuck in an eternal loop. If you pull the lever the trolley will explode, and if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity. What do you do?

50% of people pull the lever?!?

I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled. Toss me a smartphone charger and my life wouldn't even be that different, day to day.

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* Hook up the trolley to a massive generator set and get free energy. Use the free energy to solve global warming and the energy crisis.

* Study the science behind the infinitely reliable trolley. If the science is tractorable then humanity wins.

* How are the people prevented from leaving the trolley? New science?

* Is the trolley just a thought experiment? Then we can think about other solutions.

* Is the trolley somewhere inaccessible? How did the people get there? Science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Subway_Named_Mobius

If they're stuck in a loop for eternity, implying they'll never die, does it mean the trolley is going at light speed?

I interpreted it as the passengers would go round in circles for eternity, but not necessarily living passengers. I assumed they would die of hunger and dehydration which seemed less humane than instantaneous death by explosion.

What if they have renewable food and drink, a thriving economy, and the ability to reproduce?

The year is 2199. The trolly residents have figured out how to tap the trolly's motion for near-limitless power. Despite its small size, the trolly has developed a stable population of 24 (give or take over the years) and has dubbed itself Trolland. Their primary exports are electricity via pantograph back to the mainland, information services, and entertainment syndication, as the trolley offers a 24/7/365 reality tv experience akin to the Truman show.

The Trolland Show draws millions of views. The residents initially had relatively normal interaction with friends and family via Zoom calls, but as the first generations died off, a new social order evolved. The community is very tight-kit and intimate (in every sense of the word), while having parasocial relations with outsiders, whom they call Stationaries. A Cult of the Trolley which worships the eternal engine has sprung up, periodically giving offerings to the trolley and its denizens. Ratings skyrocketed one day in 2077 as five cultists, in an odd sense of irony, tied themselves to the track as a sacrifice to the great Prime Mover.

...well then, we all live on a giant trolley.

Exactly. What would superman do?

https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2305

Would your answer change if you were stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity, rather than just the remainder of your biological life?

On a serious note, it feels worse in every case that the end of your life is in the hand of an external actor.

Best case scenario you can do what you want and deal with whatever urge you have at your pace. Worst case scenario you don't have agency, and just stay stuck suffering instead of dying. Personally I'd take the chance.

My response, to leave them there was based on 1) not taking lives as a result of my decision, and 2) if they're alive, they might eventually find a way to stop the trolley and get off. My choice gives them that chance, in my opinion.

Would it change if you were stuck on the trolley with the type of people that seem to occupy my city's transit now that fare enforcement no longer happens and no one is asked to leave the trolley at the end of the line?

> stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity

What "literally" means in this case? Am I completely certain that I'll be stuck on the trolley for eternity? I would think that I'm having a psychotic break and delay my decision.

Literally, as in, if a passenger finds a way of getting out of the trolley somehow, they will be put back in so the thought experiment can continue working as intended. Absurd amendment to an absurd trolley problem.

That is I'm literally in a hell eternal. That will take time to sink in.

That depends - am I bored for eternity, or is there interesting stuff for me to do?

You're stuck on a trolley.

...but do I have an internet connection and a laptop? When they invent VR, can I have one of those?

Passengers implies there are other people. Some find human interaction entertaining.

Maybe, maybe not. You won't know until you're aboard the trolley.

If it were truly the one single opportunity I will ever have to choose to stop existing, it's a tougher choice for sure.

But on the other hand, I might be so curious about what in the heck happened in the world outside - the world that led to this universe where it will be impossible for me to die for eternity, and somehow I know this with absolute 100% certainty - that I still opt out.

Well, perhaps it is not possible to die in this universe, and there are several takes on this idea, see e.g. quantum suicide on wikipedia, or perhaps time starts looping (e.g. you reincarnate as yourself), or perhaps you even reincarnate as somebody else (in the future or in the past). Remember: we know very little about what is time and consciousness.

The "you have solved philosophy" message at the end of the game is very far from the truth.

If I live for an eternity I figure out how to make my own big bangs eventually, all while still being on the trolley.

Does the trolley have toilets?

No, but it also doesn't have food or drinks. So where you're going, you won't need toilets.

It's gonna be a short eternity in that case...

Why would I kill myself (or someone else) just because I’m granted eternal life? Seems absurd to me.

50 more years to live? Okay. 50+? Kill me immediately!

I guess I may have misinterpreted this as a choice between forcing the passengers to go around in circles for literally eternity versus dying immediately. Figured that it'd get awful boring after the trillionth or so revolution, especially if there were no other options. At some point, I imagine the passengers would be begging for the sweet release of death and I didn't want to condemn anyone to that fate.

Well, they have a trolley and a track, so there is always the option of throwing themselves in front of the oncoming trolley.

This is why I thought it was one of the more interesting problems in the list. There’s a lot of potential suffering that can fit inside an eternity.

I pulled the lever. It said "eternity" and I couldn't possibly condemn the passengers to eternal life. Maybe it's because I read The Eyes of Heisenberg by Frank Herbert [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyes_of_Heisenberg

But... I want eternal life :(

I pulled the lever. I didn't want to condemn the passengers to an eternity of monotony.

I would love to be in there. Truly.

It's akin to a life sentence on the trolley. What's to love about that?

Trolley has a view! Given the choice I’d rather be stuck in a trolley than a prison.

But it's...only one view. Forever.

It's depends what/who's inside the trolley.

It's all the people you didn't kill (including your worst enemy).

> if you don't the trolley and it's passengers will go in circles for eternity

I interpret that as the passengers would live their natural life-span and then their rotting bodies would go in circles for eternity.

Replace the trolley with planet Earth and it's no different from regular life. (approximating eternity with life of the Sun).

This one is a metaphor for life on earth, endlessly going in circles with no way to get off or go somewhere else.

Amazing that 50% of people are nihilistic enough to just blow it up.

They made a show about this called snow piercer.

You talking about the sequel to Willie Wonka? Good movie. I saw they made a show but haven’t seen it yet.

The network executives should have pulled the lever after the first season

Hmm, I reasoned the same way. I wouldn’t want the lever pulled. So I won’t pull the lever for other people.

I imagine I’d rather go insane from eternity than die for oblivion.

I’m also fairly certain I’ll change that opinion as time goes on, but that doesn’t affect my current decisionmaking.

How you going to eat buddy? You want the explosion option, or the starve to death option?

I didn't see anything in that prompt that said someone couldn't toss me my lunch while I pass by.

Or that you need food at all. It says 'eternity' including the trolley + passengers.

Like Charlie's wife in the Kingston Trio song about the MTA...

My reasoning was someone onboard might make a valuable contribution to the world even if they are stuck on the trolley, and the cost to the rest of society for letting it run seemed small.

Seems like you could always pull the lever later!

>I hereby declare that if I'm ever going to be stuck in a trolley for my entire life, I do NOT want the lever pulled.

This isn't a democracy and I hold all of the levers of power.

They might even write songs about you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsqBtZNBL60

I reasoned that the trolley is essentially just a scaled down earth, and plenty of people feel perfectly fine living their lives confined to that looping prison.

Plot twist: misreading the last sentence like s/life/wife/, heh. I had time to feel sad for you for a split second before checking. :)

I didn't pull in this case, but my reasoning was that eventually there might be a way to rescue those people.

If it's stuck for eternity, I think there is enough time to ask the stuck person what they want.

If you can communicate with the outside. Or maybe humanity exterminated itself besides the people in the magic trolley before you decided to get blown up.

That's the plot to _Snowpiercer_.

But they are not immortal there are they (never read/saw it)? And it's 'slightly' bigger than a trolley with more humans so you can (and i think they do/have?) a small society.

Have you never really thought about the horrifying possibility of eternity?

I assumed the people in the trolley would starve

but where do you poop~?

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