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Comment by jerf | Hacker News Reader

  #include <LockhartsLament.pdf>

In the end, I don't think absolutely everybody will be able to do the heavy math degrees, but the horrifying state of math education does bear a significant share of the responsibility as well. We have sucked all the life out of mathematics in the name of pedagogy and it's a bit much to expect that to pass by without effect. We can't accommodate all the student's desires for easier degrees, but the students complaining about looking at years of abstract theory without grounding are fundamentally correct, too.

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

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I would argue the opposite problem: those who are interested in math at the college level are forced to sit through two years of applications-based mathematics before ever touching the theory behind it. Nearly all of higher-level undergrad mathematics is hidden behind courses designed to teach engineers problem solving techniques using calculus. As a result, the intro calc courses don't do a particularly good job of imparting either theory or applications, unless you have an unusually talented professor. I came out of Calc II being able to solve some nasty integrals only to realize that you really only need a couple simple techniques, and with no idea how to set up problems until I went through a few physics courses. What was the point of all that - we could have learned integration by parts and u-substitution in a two week session and moved on, or actually spent a semester of analytical work preparing for higher level math.

(edit: differentiation -> integration)

As a senior in CS and math, I completely agree. Calc II, III, elementary differential equations, and matrix theory classes are about 85% engineers at my university. As such, theory was not the focus. All I had to do to get an A was learn an algorithm and apply it. Most of my friends in CS seem to think that higher level math courses are the same and if that is the general assumption I don't blame people for not pursuing math degrees.

I wasn't sure about flatline's post, but I'm sure about yours: You should read the PDF I posted. You certainly aren't disagreeing with me (or Lockheart).

My pet theory is that math is not taught well because teachers for the 6-12 group just aren't good at math. They may be good at pedagogy but may lack the deep understanding that may be needed to teach more effectively.

Now can society can divert a bigger proportion of the few people that somehow got it to teach kids?

Some teachers don't even try, my Grade 11 Principles of Math teacher just took us on field trips to the park every day instead of teaching because she didn't have enough balls to say no to the kids who asked if we could go to the park. It made my Grade 12 year and first college math class a bit difficult at some points.

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